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PODCAST TRANSCRIPT: BUILDING 5G NETWORKS WITH CLOUD


READ THE FULL TRANSCRIPT FOR THIS EPISODE OF THE IT PRO PODCAST

by: IT Pro
17 Dec 2021
17 Dec 2021

This automatically-generated transcript is taken from the IT Pro Podcast episode
‘Building 5G networks with cloud’. To listen to the full episode, click here. We
apologise for any errors. 


ADAM  SHEPHERD

Hi, I'm Adam Shepherd, and you're listening to the IT Pro Podcast. 5G has been
one of the most talked about new technologies of the last several years,
promising benefits not just for personal connectivity, but also for industrial
use cases and smart city deployments. We've talked before in the podcast about
some of the ways in which it can help solve challenges like rural broadband gaps
and the digital divide. However, 5G does not stand in isolation, it's deeply
intertwined with cloud platforms and services in terms of both its own rollout
and the services it enables. Today, we're discussing the relationship between
cloud and 5G, and we're joined by Eric van Vliet. Dell's EMEA head of telecom
market development. Eric, thanks for coming on the show.


ERIC VAN VLIET 

Thank you. Glad to be here.


ADAM  

So let's start off with a little bit of scene setting. Eric, how mature are 5G
deployments both in the UK and around the world?


ERIC  

When you talk about maturity, with telco networks, seeing that these telco
networks are usually a 10 year lifespan, looking at 4G, looking at 3G, maturity
is the hardest thing to quantify. Because having a connection on your phone that
says 5G, you could say well, now the deployment's mature, but with 5G being all
about  the additional services that have nothing to do with voice or even simple
internet on your phone, I think we're at the beginning stages of what 5G
actually can can mean to a consumer and more importantly, actually the
enterprises that are out there. So in my opinion, I think, you know, maturity of
5G is at the early stages.


ADAM  

Okay, and is that kind of variable in different geographies, like for example, I
know, the UK in particular, has not been able to roll out the submillimetre 5G
wave technology yet.


ERIC  

Yeah, well, when you talk about 5G, a lot of the telcos will talk about
non-standalone 5G, which is all about getting that 5G signal to your phone. And
then standalone 5G which means it's actually a complete 5G network with with
much more 5G capabilities running into the, in their core network. So I think
from a geographic perspective, the Western world, definitely majority of the
countries now have that 5G non standalone, so leveraging all they've done in 4G,
but getting a 5G signal, benefiting from better coverage, wider, more devices, I
think that that's very much there in the Western world, you see in other areas
like Latin America, or let's say Africa that they might be behind. But
definitely in the Western world, there is that that 5G signal. But, again, if we
then look at the more complex services that we want to get out of 5G, that will
vary very much also in the Western world, where some are only the real beginning
of getting their network ready, where other countries have already heavily
invested in that cloud platform that sits in their network to deliver those
services.


ADAM  

So speaking of which, how is cloud technology facilitating the development and
rollout of 5G services?


ERIC  

So traditionally, mobile networks were - well, are - a critical service. So if
we look at mobile networks, they are today's critical service that are at the
foundations of any critical necessity you have in in a country like an ambulance
or fire service, having that connectionanywhere, that you can call, that is so
important. So traditionally, mobile networks have been built with very stringent
requirements to make sure that they're always available, that there's, there's
there's there's the security of that you have a signal. Now, what that means is
that when you build that network, it goes slow, which usually takes a long time,
and it's not very flexible. And what 5G is changing, because it's taking that
voice out of the equation, basically, it actually means that building a 5G
network means you want to be much more agile, you don't know yet what the
service will be in five years times that you need to offer to your customers,
but you need to be ready for it. Now this is where cloud technology really helps
a service provider. Because within cloud technology, we have that elastic or
flexible compute that enables you to scale up when needed, scale down when you
don't need it. Different services might need different types of clouds and and
what the cloud has built over the last decade is that that flexibility; be ready
for anything, almost. And that's where clouds and especially hybrid clouds - and
we can go into that in a minute - hybrid cloud is really helping service
providers deliver the network, that critical piece, and being able to be more
flexible on also that network, different vendors they can leverage on that cloud
together, but then also be ready for the unknown, the services that are
eventually going to really help them monetize on their network.


ADAM  

Because I think all of us will be familiar with, you know, the benefits of the
elasticity of the cloud that you talked about, from the perspective of, you
know, a standard organisation, a standard enterprise, I would imagine that
telcos and network service providers have a lot more unique needs when it comes
to, when it comes to their, their compute and their infrastructure. What kind of
considerations do do network providers and telcos need to have in mind when
they're looking at cloud platforms and cloud technologies to support the rollout
of 5G?


ERIC  

There are some technical needs they have that are critical to actually have a 5G
network around things like timing to make sure that when you go from one mast to
the next on your phone, that actually your connection doesn't break. But these
are, these are real technical necessities, which is, which is just based on the
hardware, this is where Dell comes in and delivers that those different special
pieces that you wouldn't find in a normal cloud. But the thing, the other big
challenge they face is the location where that compute needs to sit.
Traditionally, cloud technology is very much around centralised compute, right?
When you look at an enterprise, you started with having your on prem data
centre, where your your applications ran, and then you you moved into a public
cloud, which still meant everything was in the same place. But because of the
nature of a mobile network, now, you're, you really have your users
disaggregated all over the all over the country, for example, so that service
that you're offering to your customer now has to be able to work anywhere, which
means that you have to deal with running your clouds - and this is where hybrid
cloud really comes in - running your cloud both on a central location where your
core applications work, your billing, your support systems, but then the other
services, they'll get disaggregated on your cloud into the network, which is a
big challenge, because you start to talk about locations that could be next to
the roads where there's a cell tower or Point of Presence, what they call small
huts that you might see in your neighbourhoods, where today is more real telco
equipment, which is purely focused on access; in the future, there will be also
cloud equipment that will actually deliver that additional service that goes
over the access.


ADAM  

So conversely, what impact is 5G technology having on the provision of new cloud
services? We've talked a lot about some of the ways that cloud platforms are
being used to kind of increase the 5G rollout. But when 5G actually lands, what
services will it enable?


ERIC  

There's there's a couple of services that you actually already mentioned in your
intro. I think one of the the the first real services which 5G will help move
forwards is that rural broadband, so using mobile network to actually have
broadband in your home. That is reducing the costs by not having to drag fibre
to the home, but be delivering that, we call it last mile, over over the air.
But then if you look at other services, because of 5G's technology capabilities,
such as better accuracy of location, more devices in a square foot, and bigger
pipe, you can start thinking about delivery in high density areas like football
stadiums, watching a review of your, of the goal on your phone, but you watch it
on your phone when you want it rather than looking at the big screen. It's a
simple service from a consumption perspective, but actually requires a quite an
enormous amount of broadband or bandwidth capabilities to the different devices
on demand so the user can decide and there's a lot of people that probably will
want to do the same thing at the same time. So you also have a high density so
that's an example and you can translate that to other non sport areas like a
music, let's say a music event where you on your phone or on your device can see
what is on the big screen. Or you can see the festival that's on another big
screen. And this is when, when you start to think, it's a lot about content.
It's a lot about video content, and also about content creation. So if you look
at our culture, we've moved from content consumption really in content creation.
Applications, like TikTok have shown that over the last last year is that we're,
we're no longer consuming content, we're much more creating content and sharing.
And again, 5G will help with that, because you get better quality, because you
have a better bandwidth, but you also you can do joint content. So with the low
latency, if you now have two or three people do content creation in a different
area, but you want to have that all together, the low latency will help for that
to be much more seamlessly. So there's, there's a lot of different things, it is
about content, it is about augmented reality, walking around and your phone
knows exactly where you are. So rather than knowing you're, let's say in the
vicinity of three, four shops, it knows you're in front one shop. So what you
get on your phone, if you would want is exactly what a shop would want on to
advertise on your phone. So those are the things I think 5G will really enable.
And because of its its improved technology advantages. And then I always say 5G
is not what you know, what we think it's going to be, it's what we want it to be
because it's so software driven. And we know from the cloud world, if if you can
create it in software and put it in the cloud, it will it will eventually become
a service that a service provider will offer.


ADAM  

And of course, one of the big use cases that we've heard about for 5G
specifically, is factory automation, and kind of industrial IoT. And that whole
side of things. 5G has been touted as a big enabler for providing connectivity
for devices in remote locations, edge locations, all of that kind of thing, and
enabling them to be networked together, centrally managed, centrally
administrated, and for data from those devices to be streamed in near enough
real time back out to the cloud for kind of analysis and, and insight gathering.
Is that something that you've seen kind of starting to starting to actually come
to life now that 5G is beginning to roll out?


ERIC  

Yeah, we have. I think automation has also a role to play in in the network
itself to help service providers deploy the network. But if we're looking at
the, let's say, the enterprises, that are leveraging automation in their factory
or like a company like Ocado, in their automated picking of groceries; 5G,
because it can accelerate that automation will have an immediate impact on both
bottom line and top line from an enterprise. We can do more in the same amount
of time, because now the robots can go faster, because we are faster to react to
something that's in the way of the robot. So so that, for example, that that's
clearly we can do more customers per hour, but also on the bottom line, because
now maybe something that couldn't be automated, because there was no reaction
time from a safety perspective, now can be automated. So also there, we see that
that 5G has a direct impact how, how these factories operate. So I think and I
think that is key to understand, but why it's so, such an important event, 5G,
is that it can help enterprises do more. But it can also help enterprises to
reduce costs, things that couldn't be done before. And that's and that will not
stop. And they think that's where 6G will probably have an even bigger impact
with whatever 6G will be. And this is how we're going to see our own, let's say
our own culture, but also our working life evolve more and more. Another great
example is if we if we thinking back to the first Google Glass that existed,
where people said you look through your glasses, and it shows you, I don't know,
a tool that needs to be used for a device. Now that was great, conceptually, but
you needed to actually the computer to make that happen. nearby. 5G can deliver
that out of the cloud. So 5G could actually make that a reality. More lower
costs, anywhere could be delivering such as service to a glass from any any of
the vendors, that then says to the engineer that sits on top of the tower,
'warning, you're going to touch something that is dangerous'. And these are
these are things that are amazing to consider that if we can deliver that kind
of service over 5G, suddenly, we can have a direct impact on safety, on speed.
And so it touches a lot of different use cases just by the delivery of a 5G
network.


ADAM  

So Eric, can you tell us a little bit about how some of Dell's telco customers
are using cloud technology to expand their business?


ERIC  

So obviously, they're using cloud technology to build their network. So they're
using cloud technology to deliver connectivity in new areas where they might not
have today, connectivity. So they're able to expand their network into rural,
for example, where maybe today they can only deliver 3G signal, now they can
deliver a full 5G signal due to cloud technology. So that's a clear how to use
it. The second, the second part, what what they're doing to deliver new services
is the combination of voice over fixed at home, and mobile. So one augmented
connection, rather than you have your individual services. So service providers
always delivered, you could say triple play: media, voice and internet. And now
being able to almost deliver that over one network allows them to, to combine
services and think about how I leave the house, while I watch video on demand.
And it just continues on my phone. If I want, I just have to hit play again. And
it just carries on when I get on the Tube, for example. These kinds of services,
yeah, they're not critical to my existence in life, but they're very convenient.
I think that's how service providers will, will start to become more the
connectivity or the service provider for a household where maybe now your your
mobile phone is from service provider A, your broadband is vendor B and your
television is vendor C, because you want to cherry pick. That convenience is
going to create an environment where they say, well, I'll pick one service
provider, because look how easy all this is. And service providers are also
driving this cloud technology now. For example, when you leave your home, your
phone is no longer on your home network. So anything, let's say your fridge or
whatever connected device you have connected to your home network, I suddenly
have no more access to. Now there's there's ways where cloud technology from
third parties can help connect it through apps. But what if my phone just still
has access to that network, via the service providers. So I can still easily
connect to every device in my house without the need for a third party. So from
a security perspective, as well, those those are advantages that that service
providers can start to offer by the technology of 5G because you still have the
right connections, and then also cloud technology by being able to leverage that
cloud technology to have those services without needing a bigger home hub in
your house, for example, by just running that close to the home, for example, on
the cell side.


ADAM  

Yeah, and I think that point you raised about network operators becoming the one
stop shop for for consumers, you know, to manage all aspects of their digital
life is something that a lot of telcos are going to really gravitate towards,
particularly when it comes to the layering on of additional services. So things
like security services for devices, is something we've started to see network
operators and vendors move into; same thing with cloud storage for things like
photos and movies and things like that; same with kind of various subscription
based stuff, you know, you see network operators partnering with streaming
platforms to kind of provide that piece of it. And I think that idea of a one
stop shop kind of digital connectivity kind of pipe is something that is going
to be very popular over over the next several years.


ERIC  

Agree and I think it translates also to the enterprises because that this is
where then Private 5G, replacing Wi-Fi, which which they called networks, you
know, the service providers could call it network slicing, where you bring the
5G signal privately into the, into the the enterprise. Suddenly you say, Well, I
have my private 5G from a service provider. I would say all my employees now,
their company phone is from the same service provider. I want to leverage their
cloud. So my, my, let's say my my backhaul, my fixed fibre or whatever you you
have into your building is now suddenly also from the same service provider,
they start to also offer now the full spectrum on the enterprise. So I think
that that one stop doesn't just translate to to consumers for convenience, but
it also translates to enterprises for the ability to do more if everything is
from one. And I think that's, that's where 5G really from a monetisation
perspective for service providers will become their their their biggest focus,
because that's where the biggest struggle is from a service provider is to to
get more money because nobody's paying more for their mobile phone subscription.
Maybe if you combine the services, you can get some extra money. But really, if
it's too expensive, that convenience is just not that attractive. But when it's
when you talk about enterprises, to have a service, and therefore, this is
critical for the enterprise business, you start to pull them into as a service
provider, they will start to pull them into their domain. And and then it's just
a matter of more and more services. And before you know, it is really hard to
change from a service provider, and so on. I think that's where really, a
service provider, the strength of 5G and cloud technology is going to kind of
bring it home for them.


ADAM  

So here's something we don't discuss on this podcast often. But what is the
opportunity for channel businesses in this space? Because there's a number of
indicators, to me, that says this could be a potential goldmine for channel
companies who are willing to get in early, but I'm keen to hear your
perspective.


ERIC  

So so channel partners, they have obviously a big role to play for that local
deployment, imagine the delivery of specific devices in a local area, where a
channel can be a retail route or a distribution route for, let's say, a service
provider and Dell that have a private 5G solution. Or, but also, when you start
talking about channel, the clouds, you know, the clouds model for enterprises,
traditional public cloud has already that, that commercial path for channel;
reselling cloud. I think service providers, they lack the experience to sell
cloud compute as a model, right, they are very good at selling the actual
connectivity services that go over that as well, especially the ones related to
that connectivity. But when it starts to talk about just cloud resale, clouds,
compute resale, compared to the public cloud offerings, they have deficits. And
I think that's where from a channel solution, there's a really big opportunity
to start selling that, that hybrid cloud, that edge cloud, to the enterprises.
And if you see what's happening from an application perspective, there's a lot
of community based, like mobile Jags is a good example, where the service
providers are creating that sandbox for people to create their applications. But
then to sell those applications, that, there's no real marketplace for that. And
that concept doesn't really work for a service provider, because it's not a easy
click, we have this service, there's a little bit more to do with it. And when
you look at these smaller software companies, they don't have the capacity to
support hundreds of customers in in a in a country. So who's going to actually
support that application? This is where the channel can be that scale for the
smaller software vendors. And that is really, I think, like you said, the gold
mine for the channel business when you talk about 5G and cloud.


ADAM  

So we've talked a lot about some of the ways that cloud and 5G naturally
complement each other and some of the ways that they can be used to to support
each other. Is it possible to run 5G infrastructure without leveraging the cloud
in some capacity?


ERIC  

The connectivity piece is definitely possible. So bringing 5G to a mobile phone
and to maybe even rural broadband, bringing that connectivity, I think you don't
require cloud technology, it will be more expensive in the long run, it will
definitely impact the innovation pace. So you deploy a network now to a new
function, you're really relying on that vendor that deployed your network. So
instead of when you have clouds, innovation is lot more accessible because you
can pull in another vendor on top of the cloud that you own, rather than relying
on upgrades. So I think it's feasible but it is not advisable. I think no
service provider's having that real thought of let's let's deploy on let's
deploy on a rigid black box, you could call it, infrastructure. I think I think
that's definitely, definitely not on the cards, and to be honest, as well from
from the equipment providers that traditionally deployed the 2g networks, they
are adopting cloud technology as well, so they're also, actually. So maybe in
the future, it's not even possible because nobody's offering it. And I think
then because because it's, it's not the not the smartest thing to do in my
opinion. And I think that most of the service providers will agree with that,
that when you go to a new network, that the only real way of doing that is
leveraging cloud technology to make it most efficient and, and commercially
viable for you as a service provider.


ADAM  

So one of the most popular kind of routes to market for this kind of solution
seems to be hybrid cloud, you know, as, as with many other kind of sectors and
verticals, hybrid cloud seems to be what a number of organisations are
gravitating towards, what elements of the of the 5G network are best suited to a
kind of hybrid cloud setup, if you like?


ERIC  

The elements that are best suited for for the hybrid are the control elements.
So obviously, anything that has to do with delivering the connectivity itself,
the data plane, you know, the data that we're talking about, that really needs
to sit in the network. So so those are, that needs to stay a certain latency
distance from the user to make sure that that actually works. And with 5G, that
distance became a lot shorter than with 4G. But if we're looking at the control,
the operation elements, the control plane, definitely when we're thinking about
hybrid, you can start to run functions away from the user, and to a point, you
could run them in another country, and it doesn't matter really, because the
functionality itself of your network will not be impacted. Obviously, other,
there are some limitations but but it isn't, it is definitely doable. And I
think this is where hybrid cloud really will allow the service provider, to to
cherry pick and say, Well, I want to run my network as efficient as possible.
disaggregation has now allowed me to not just disaggregate the function from the
device it runs on so I can move it from one device to the other, but also the
disaggregation of the actual network where they, they've taken the data and the
control and separated that in different software pieces. Now I can run that in a
more efficient way. Maybe public cloud, maybe my private cloud. But it's in a
different cloud than actually the critical piece, which is that data element
where that runs, which runs more expensive because it sits closer, it sits more
on not dedicated hardware, but definitely sits on isolated hardware so that it
will always have enough capacity to service whatever number of subscribers I
have in that area. Whereas the control plane probably shares more resources with
other with other applications. And that will increase your cost efficiency. So I
think when you talk about hybrid cloud, it's that that control plane element
where you can really start to, to use that that offload of your expensive
network into a more cost optimised cloud. But then again, the good thing is, if
you do need, let's say you have - and this is always frustration of mine, if you
go to like a music event where there's lots of people or Formula One, I have
connectivity, I can't use it. So I can have four bars, but my phone call doesn't
go through. Because there's too many people there. So this is where you really
would want to push those control elements towards the user. So you can deal with
them faster, you can increase it so that they can actually use the connectivity.
So so that's, that's, you know, cost efficiency is one thing, but pushing it
back into the network to solve problems, like the usage of the network, actually
will will will help there as well. So yeah, I think I think hybrid clouds for
telco service providers is really around the control and operation elements,
because the data elements itself will much, will always be there, it will not be
you will not turn that off because you have to offer a signal and the nature of
how radio works, if there's a phone call or not, or if there's data or not,
you're still processing that radio because it is receiving whatever is there,
even if there is no no no call being made.


ADAM  

Well, we're almost out of time here but before we go, I just wanted to ask one
last thing; should we be preparing for 6G, do you think?


ERIC  

I think I think you should definitely start to prepare on what 6G is. 5G brought
all these new capabilities and complex problems that that service providers had
to solve like how do I cost efficiently manage all these devices? And this is
where we as Dell looked at how we can help with automation and to reduce costs.
So someone doesn't have to go on site and bare metal orchestrator is one of the
things we, we launched recently as a as a product. But if we're looking at 6G, I
think a lot of the questions are, well, what does 6G actually need to solve? And
what usually happens in these, we have ideas already. But in 5G, either, there's
just not enough time to bring it to the market. So it gets pushed in 6G, or
we're just not ready for it yet. And that's why we're starting to think now
already around what 6G's gonna look like. And then on top of that, when you
think of your network, 5G, the concept of 5G is a lot older than us actually
working on 5G. So you also start to think, well, where's the world going to be?
What kind of cultural problems are we going to have? More people on the planet,
but you know, COVID has taught us a lot about how we're not ready for certain
events that almost were actually were unthinkable, if I'm honest. And, you know,
we all saw the movies before COVID. And it was great, but it was all fiction.
And we knew in history, these things happened. But there's, there's events that
we can't imagine right now, but how are we ready for that? How are we going to
be able to be ready for, you know, earthquake style events that shock the world,
and we have to change? And then also how can we make the world better? How can
we improve the lives of people by by an evolution of technology? And I think
those are the things that really drive the thoughts about 6G is how to be ready
and how to improve life. Because we are we're, you know, if the the evolution of
of cultures and how at the pace it's going? I think we're not, it's it's fair to
say that nobody can really predict what's going to be life in five to 10 years,
and what's going to be the next killer application or the killer usage that that
people are needing their connectivity for.


ADAM  

Well, I'm afraid that's all we have time for in this week's episode. But thank
you once again, Eric van Vliet, for joining us.


ERIC  

Thanks for having me. It was great. 


ADAM  

You can find links to all of the topics we've spoken about today in the show
notes and even more on our website at itpro.co.uk. You can also follow us on
social media, as well as subscribe to our daily newsletter. Don't forget to
subscribe to the IT Pro Podcast wherever you find podcasts. And if you're
enjoying the show, leave us a rating and a review. We'll be back next week with
more analysis from the world of IT but until then, goodbye.

 * cloud computing
 * hybrid cloud
 * 5G
 * Dell
 * IT Pro Podcast transcript

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