www.baseball-fever.com
Open in
urlscan Pro
2606:4700::6812:d018
Public Scan
Submitted URL: https://www.baseball-fever.com/archive/index.php/t-71846.html
Effective URL: https://www.baseball-fever.com/forum/general-baseball/the-negro-leagues/36340-bullet-joe-rogan-thread
Submission: On June 06 via manual from US — Scanned from DE
Effective URL: https://www.baseball-fever.com/forum/general-baseball/the-negro-leagues/36340-bullet-joe-rogan-thread
Submission: On June 06 via manual from US — Scanned from DE
Form analysis 4 forms found in the DOM
POST
<form action="" method="post" class="h-clearfix js-login-form-main ">
<div class="login-fieldset table">
<div class="tr">
<span class="td">
<input type="text" name="username" value="" class="js-login-username b-form-input__input b-form-input__input--full" placeholder="User Name" aria-label="User Name">
</span>
</div>
<div class="tr">
<span class="td">
<input type="password" autocomplete="off" name="password" class="js-login-password b-form-input__input b-form-input__input--full" placeholder="Password" aria-label="Password">
</span>
</div>
</div>
<div class="secondary-controls h-left h-clear-left h-margin-top-s">
<label><input type="checkbox" name="rememberme">Remember me</label>
</div>
<div class="primary-controls h-right h-clear-right h-margin-top-s">
<button type="button" class="js-login-button b-button b-button--primary">Log in</button>
</div>
<div class="secondary-controls h-left h-clear-left">
<a href="https://www.baseball-fever.com/lostpw" class="b-link lost-password-link">Forgot password or user name?</a>
</div>
<div class="primary-controls h-right h-clear-right"> or
<a id="idLoginSignup" href="https://www.baseball-fever.com/register?urlpath=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmFzZWJhbGwtZmV2ZXIuY29tLy9mb3J1bS9nZW5lcmFsLWJhc2ViYWxsL3RoZS1uZWdyby1sZWFndWVzLzM2MzQwLWJ1bGxldC1qb2Utcm9nYW4tdGhyZWFk">Sign Up</a>
</div>
<input type="hidden" name="securitytoken" value="guest">
</form>Name: toolbar-search-form — POST activity/get
<form name="toolbar-search-form" action="activity/get" method="post" class="toolbar-search-form">
<input type="hidden" name="nodeid" value="36340">
<input type="hidden" name="view" value="thread">
<input type="hidden" name="per-page" value="15">
<input type="hidden" name="pagenum" value="1">
<div class="js-toolbar-search-inner b-form-input__input-with-button-container b-form-input__input-with-button-container--full">
<input type="text" name="q" value="" class="b-form-input__input b-form-input__input--with-button b-form-input__input--shadow js-filter-search" placeholder="Search" data-filter-name="Search" aria-label="Search">
<button type="submit" name="btnSearch" id="btnSearch-top" class="b-form-input__inside-button"><span class="b-form-input__inside-button-icon b-icon b-icon__search-gray-s">Search</span></button>
</div>
<input type="hidden" name="securitytoken" value="guest">
</form>https://www.baseball-fever.com/forum/general-baseball/the-negro-leagues/36340-bullet-joe-rogan-thread
<form class="pagenav-form h-clearfix" action="https://www.baseball-fever.com/forum/general-baseball/the-negro-leagues/36340-bullet-joe-rogan-thread">
<input type="hidden" class="defaultpage" value="1">
<div class="pagenav h-left"> Page <input type="text" name="page" class="js-pagenum textbox h-padding-horiz-none b-form-input__input--shadow" value="1"> of <span class="pagetotal">1</span>
</div>
<div class="horizontal-arrows h-left">
<a class="arrow left-arrow h-disabled" title="Previous Page" rel="prev"><span class="vb-icon vb-icon-arrow-left"></span></a>
<a class="arrow right-arrow h-disabled" title="Next Page" rel="next"><span class="vb-icon vb-icon-arrow-right"></span></a>
</div>
</form>POST activity/get
<form action="activity/get" method="post" class="toolbar-filter-overlay h-clearfix">
<input type="hidden" name="nodeid" value="36340">
<input type="hidden" name="view" value="thread">
<input type="hidden" name="nolimit" value="1">
<input type="hidden" name="per-page" value="15">
<input type="hidden" name="pagenum" value="1">
<input type="hidden" name="userid" value="0">
<input type="hidden" name="showChannelInfo" value="1">
<ul class="filter-options-list">
<li>
<div class="filter-header">Time</div>
<div class="filter-options">
<label><input type="radio" name="filter_time" value="time_all" checked="checked" class="js-default-checked"><span>All Time</span></label>
<label><input type="radio" name="filter_time" value="time_today"><span>Today</span></label>
<label><input type="radio" name="filter_time" value="time_lastweek"><span>Last Week</span></label>
<label><input type="radio" name="filter_time" value="time_lastmonth"><span>Last Month</span></label>
</div>
</li>
<li>
<div class="filter-header">Show</div>
<div class="filter-options">
<label><input type="radio" name="filter_show" value="show_all" checked="checked" class="js-default-checked"><span>All</span></label>
<label><input type="radio" name="filter_show" value="vBForum_Text"><span>Discussions only</span></label>
<label><input type="radio" name="filter_show" value="vBForum_Gallery"><span>Photos only</span></label>
<label><input type="radio" name="filter_show" value="vBForum_Video"><span>Videos only</span></label>
<label><input type="radio" name="filter_show" value="vBForum_Link"><span>Links only</span></label>
<label><input type="radio" name="filter_show" value="vBForum_Poll"><span>Polls only</span></label>
<label><input type="radio" name="filter_show" value="vBForum_Event"><span>Events only</span></label>
</div>
</li>
<!-- end if prefixsets -->
</ul>
<input type="hidden" name="securitytoken" value="guest">
</form>Text Content
* Login or Sign Up
* Logging in...
Remember me
Log in
Forgot password or user name?
or Sign Up
* Log in with
* Forums
* Blogs
* Articles
* Groups
* TOS
* Today's Posts
* Member List
* Calendar
* Home
* Forum
* General Baseball
* The Negro Leagues
* If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register
link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you
want to visit from the selection below.
BULLET JOE ROGAN THREAD
Collapse
X
Collapse
* Posts
* Latest Activity
* Photos
* Search
*
* Page of 1
*
* Filter
* Time
All Time Today Last Week Last Month
* Show
All Discussions only Photos only Videos only Links only Polls only Events
only
Filtered by:
Clear All
new posts
Previous template Next
* Bill Burgess
Registered User
* Join Date: Oct 2003
* Posts: 13114
*
* Share
* Tweet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1
BULLET JOE ROGAN THREAD
12-22-2007, 07:02 AM
Introducing Wilbur "Bullet Joe" Rogan.
Born: July 28, 1889, Oklahoma City, OK
Died: March 4, 1967, Kansas City, MO
League: Negro American League; BR, TR; 5'7, 180;
wikipedia article
A Negro League star player, he was foremost a great pitcher, but also played
OF, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, manager, umpire. His playing career extended from
1917-38, and his umpiring days from 1939-46.
His teams were:
Kansas City Colored Giants, 1917
All Nations, 1917
Kansas City Monarchs, 1920-38
An outstanding pitcher with a tremendous fastball, a fine curve and good
control, "Bullet" Rogan was a star for the Kansas City Monarchs [ed. one of
the greatest of all the Negro League franchises, if not the greatest]. . .
The right-hander was a smart pitcher who used a no-windup delivery, a sidearm
motion, and always kept the ball down. In addition to his basic pitches, he
included a forkball, palmball and spitter in his repertory. A durable
workhorse . . . for a decade [who was] rarely . . . relieved, this versatile
player's value to his team was inestimable. He was also a superb fielder and
a dangerous hitter with good power.
He had strong wrists and used a heavy bat. . . . [W]hen not performing on the
mound, he played in the outfield to keep his big bat in the lineup. . . [H]e
often batted in the cleanup position [ed. for a great team, no less!] and was
credited with [the] league high [in] homes in 1922. He consistently hit over
.300, compiling averages of .351, .416, .412, .366, .314, .330, .353, .341
and .311 for the years 1922-1930. On the mound [remember, in typically 70-90
game seasons] he registered seasons of 13-6, 12-8, 16-5, 15-2, 12-4, 15-6,
and 9-3 for the first seven of those years. . .
[He joined] the Army in the fall of 1911. He remained in the Army through
1919, captaining baseball teams [with the limited opportunities for an
Afro-American to make a living as a baseball player, he found a unique way to
do it, as did Dobie Moore]. . . In exhibitions against major leaguers, Rogan
is credited with a .329 average.
He showcased his stamina and versatility when he gained two victories in the
1924 World Series against the great Hilldale club, pitching three complete
games and relieving in another, and batting .325 while playing in the
outfield the other six games. That winter, in his only trip to Cuba, the hard
worker continued his winning pace, recording a 9-4 worksheet.
The following year without Rogan on the mound in the World Series, the
Monarchs lost to the same Hilldale club. In 1926, Bullet hit .331 and
compiled a 12-4 record on the mound, which was tops for the first-half
champion Monarchs, who lost a heartbreaking five-out-of-nine play-off to the
second-half champion, Chicago American Giants. In a valiant effort to stave
off defeat, Bullet Joe started both ends of a double-header on the last day
of the play-off, but to no avail.
During his twilight years, Rogan served as manager of the Monarchs prior to
his retirement in 1938.
He was known as a good curveball hitter with a smooth swing, often hit
cleanup, and led the league with 16 homers in 1922. From 1922-30, he hit
.351, .416, .412, .366, .314, .330, .353, .341, .311, while, for the 1st 7
yrs. of those years, he registered these pitching records:
13-6, 12-8, 16-5, 15-2, 12-4, 15-6, 9-03.
In exhibitions against MLers, Rogan is credited with a .329 BA, making his
last appearance at age 48, when he collected 3 hits against Bob Feller's
All-Stars. Jocko Conlon, who often played against black teams before
beginning his career as an umpire, regarded Rogan as one of the greats of the
Negro L., describing his motion as "a nice, easy delivery" and declaring him
to be faster than Satchel Paige.
On June 29, 1949, both Oscar Charleston and Ed Bolden, chose their all time
Negro L. teams for the Sporting News. Both chose Bullet Joe as their 1st
starting pitcher and Paige as their 2nd starting pitcher. Charleston's other
pitchers were:Leblanc Western, Pat Doherty & William Dismukes. Ed Bolden's
other pitchers were: Smokey Joe Williams Cannonball Dick Redding & Rube
Foster.
In 1952, the Pittsburgh Courier, a black newspaper, polled 31 Negro league
players, writers, officials and managers and they selected a A & B teams:
----A team pitchers-------B team pitchers
P - Smokey Joe Williams----P - Dave Brown
P - Satchel Paige-----------P - Cannonball Dick Redding
P - Bullet Joe Rogan--------P - Nip Winters
P - John Donaldson--------- P - Dizzy Dismukes
P - Willie Foster------------P - Don Newcombe
Later in 1952, the Pittsburgh Courier, a black newspaper, polled its fans as
to the greatest Negro leagues players. They chose 5 teams. The first team was
as follows.
First team: (1B) Buck Leonard, (2B) Jackie Robinson, (SS) Pop Lloyd, (3B)
Oliver Marcelle, (OF) Monte Irvin, (OF) Oscar Charleston, (OF) Cristobel
Torriente, (C) Josh Gibson, (C) Biz Mackey, (P) Joe Williams, (P) Satchel
Paige, (P) Bullet Rogan, (P) John Dondaldson, (P) Bill Foster, (Utility)
Martin Dihigo, (Utility) Sam Bankhead, (Mgr) Rube Foster, (Coach) Dizzy
Dismukes, (Coach) Danny McClellan.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bullet Joe Rogan
Unfortunately, another pitcher/hitter who confounds at least the willingness
of the Baseball Think Factory guys to project his data. So I'm stuck with the
subjective stuff with Negro League data again. He can point to a lot of
support in that realm, though. Consider the following:
1) named a first team pitcher in the Pittsburgh Courier poll selecting Negro
League greats;
2) named to the Baseball Think Factory Hall of Merit;
3) inducted into Cooperstown;
4) placed 11th in the SABR poll ranking Negro League greats; and
5) selected among the top six pitchers in Negro League history in a poll of
Negro League Museum members.
He was also named the best Negro League pitcher by Bill James for three
seasons: 1922, 1924 (tie), and 1925 (tie).
Jim Riley's Biographical Encyclopedia of the Negro Baseball Leagues has a
nice writeup on him. A sizeable excerpt from it follows:
Quote:
An outstanding pitcher with a tremendous fastball, a fine curve and good
control, "Bullet" Rogan was a star for the Kansas City Monarchs [ed. one of
the greatest of all the Negro League franchises, if not the greatest]. . .
The right-hander was a smart pitcher who used a no-windup delivery, a sidearm
motion, and always kept the ball down. In addition to his basic pitches, he
included a forkball, palmball and spitter in his repertory. A durable
workhorse . . . for a decade [who was] rarely . . . releived, this versatile
player's value to his team was inestimable. He was also a superb fielder and
a dangerous hitter with good power.
He had strong wrists and used a heavy bat. . . . [W]hen not performing on the
mound, he played in the outfield to keep his big bat in the lineup. . . [H]e
often batted in the cleanup position [ed. for a great team, no less!] and was
credited with [the] league high [in] homes in 1922. He consistently hit over
.300, compiling averages of .351, .416, .412, .366, .314, .330, .353, .341
and .311 for the years 1922-1930. On the mound [remember, in typically 70-90
game seasons] he registered seasons of 13-6, 12-8, 16-5, 15-2, 12-4, 15-6,
and 9-3 for the first seven of those years. . .
[He joined] the Army in the fall of 1911. He remained in the Army through
1919, captaining baseball teams [with the limited opportunities for an
Afro-American to make a living as a baseball player, he found a unique way to
do it, as did Dobie Moore]. . . In exhibitions against major leaguers, Rogan
is credited with a .329 average.
William McNeil on page 205 of Cool Papas and Double Duties added this:
Quote:
[H]e pitched in the California Winter League with great success. [Ed. this
league was one of the first integrated leagues in the continental US in the
20th century and could boast many major league players] Box scores uncovered
to date credit him with an excellent 42-14 pitching record a .362 batting
average and 30 doubles and 19 homers for every 550 at-bats. Bullet Joe could
do it all.
Bullet Joe Rogan---Albright's Musings---Baseball Think Factory
------------------------------------------------Bullet Joe Rogan--Joe Rogan
-------------------Joe Rogan
-----------------------------------------------KC Monarchs
1920-'38----------------------KC Monarchs P/O
Last edited by Bill Burgess; 09-23-2009, 04:10 PM.
Tags: None
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
* Bill Burgess
Registered User
* Join Date: Oct 2003
* Posts: 13114
*
* Share
* Tweet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#2
12-22-2007, 07:56 AM
wikipedia article below
Charles Wilber(n) "Bullet" Rogan, also known as "Bullets" or "Bullet Joe"
(July 28, 1893 - March 4, 1967), was an American right-handed pitcher in the
Negro Leagues from 1911 to 1938. Born in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, he won more
games than any other pitcher in Negro League history, and was elected to the
Baseball Hall of Fame in 1998.
Considered one of the greatest pitchers of his day, Rogan relied on a sharp
curve that broke almost straight down, an excellent fastball, and a no-windup
delivery. Early in his career he occasionally struggled with his control, but
by the mid-1920s had improved greatly on this aspect of his game. Rogan was a
workhorse, regularly leading the league in innings pitched and complete
games.
Renowned as a “two-way” player who could both hit and pitch successfully, he
was also versatile in the field, able to play all nine positions. Rogan threw
and batted right-handed, and while not extremely fast, ran the bases well and
stole when necessary. He was relatively small (5 foot 7, 180 pounds (82 kg))
but solidly built and strong, with thin legs and a barrel-like chest. He used
an unusually heavy bat, and hit for power as well as average. Later in his
career he frequently served as his team's manager.
Rogan first played professional baseball for the Palace Colts of Kansas City,
Kansas, in 1911, starting as a catcher. In October 1911 he joined the Army,
serving in African-American units stationed in the Philippines and Hawaii. He
built a reputation as a pitcher for army baseball teams, especially the
famous 25th Infantry Wreckers. On furlough in 1917, Rogan played
professionally for the Kansas City Giants and J.L. Wilkinson's All-Nations
Club, but returned to the army for three more years. In mid-season 1920,
Wilkinson recruited Rogan and several teammates for his Kansas City Monarchs,
a new team in the Negro National League.
Rogan quickly became the premier pitcher and biggest box-office draw in the
young league. He led the NNL in wins four consecutive years, from 1922 to
1925. When he wasn't pitching, he frequently played in the outfield or at
second base. In 1922 he hit .439 with 18 home runs, both good for second in
the league. In 1923, he hit .364 with a league-leading 16 wins and 151
strikeouts to lead the Monarchs to their first pennant. The next season Rogan
took the batting title with a .409 average while compiling a 17-5 record, and
starred in the first Black World Series, hitting .375 and winning two games
as the Monarchs defeated the Eastern Colored League champion Hilldales.
Rogan may have reached his peak in 1925, leading Kansas City to its third
straight championship with a sparkling 22-2 record. He was again the
strikeout king, and contributed a .374 average. In the playoffs against the
St. Louis Stars he hit .455 and won four more games, tossing two shutouts and
24 consecutive scoreless innings. Unfortunately, before the World Series
rematch with Hilldale, Rogan injured his knee playing with his young son.
Without their star, the Monarchs went down to defeat in six games.
In 1926 Rogan took over from José Méndez as manager of the Kansas City
Monarchs. His players regarded him as a strict disciplinarian, possibly a
result of his military background. In the playoffs against the Chicago
American Giants, he tried to pitch both ends of a series-deciding
doubleheader, and dropped both games (and the pennant) to the younger Bill
Foster. Still, in 1929 Rogan piloted the Monarchs to their fourth NNL
championship and the best record (62-17) in Negro League history.
As late as 1928 at the age of 34, Bullet Rogan was the best hitter (.358) and
arguably the best pitcher (10-2) on the Monarchs. That year he slammed three
home runs in a game against the Detroit Stars. After 1928, he mostly played
in the outfield, and continued to manage the club, off and on, until 1938. In
1936, at the age of 42, Rogan appeared in the East-West All-Star Game.
Rogan led the 1924/25 Cuban League with a 9-4 record for the champion
Almendares club. He spent five seasons in the integrated California Winter
League between 1920 and 1930, going 42-14 as a pitcher and batting .362 with
15 home runs in 130 games against teams of white major and minor leaguers.
Rogan's team won the championship every year.
Although statistics are incomplete, Negro League historian John Holway puts
Rogan's career record in the Negro Leagues at 151 wins and 65 losses, with a
.348 average and 62 home runs in 2039 at bats. Rogan's 151 wins are first
all-time among Negro League pitchers, his .699 winning percentage fifth, and
his .348 average fourth among players with more than 2000 at bats. (It should
be pointed out that Negro League schedules were at their longest in the
1920s, so Rogan enjoys a statistical advantage over both later and earlier
pitchers.) Also according to Holway, Rogan hit .370 against white major
league competition.
Historian Phil Dixon puts Rogan's lifetime totals against all competition,
including semipro and Army teams, at more than 350 games won, 2000
strikeouts, 2500 hits, 350 home runs, and 500 stolen bases.
After his retirement as a player, Rogan worked as an umpire in the Negro
Leagues until 1946, then became a postal worker. The Baseball Hall of Fame
first admitted Negro League players in the 1970s, but did not honor Bullet
Rogan until 1998, 31 years after his death in Kansas City.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
COMMENT
Post Cancel
Previous template Next
AD WIDGET
Collapse
* English (US)
* Deutsch (Du)
* English (US)
* French
* Spanish
* Help
* Contact Us
* Go to top
Copyright © 1999-2021. All Rights Reserved by Baseball Almanac, Inc. Privacy
Policy.
Part of the Baseball Almanac family: 755 Home Runs | Baseball Box Scores |
Baseball Fever | Today in Baseball History.
All times are GMT-8. This page was generated at 01:58 AM.
Working...
Yes No
OK
OK Cancel
😀
😂
🥰
😘
🤢
😎
😞
😡
👍
👎
☕
Close
X