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This site uses Just the Docs, a documentation theme for Jekyll.
 * Join our Discord!


R/TECHSUPPORT HAS GONE DARK

Last Updated 2023-06-12

If you found your way to this page, then r/TechSupport has been set as private.
You probably have a lot of questions. We will try our best to answer them all
here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Live Chat on Discord
> 
> Our Live Chat will be open during the Reddit Blackout Protest. You can join by
> clicking here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Table of Contents
>  1.  What is going on?
>  2.  What does this have to do with third-party reddit applications and why is
>      everyone screaming about them dying because of Reddit?
>  3.  Why are people mentioning that it will harm those that require accessible
>      websites?
>  4.  What about NSFW content?
>  5.  Why would the moderators of a subreddit for tech support care about all
>      of this? How does this affect you?
>  6.  Why would you do this to us?
>  7.  How can we, the users, help?
>  8.  YOU are important to r/TechSupport and we couldn’t do this without YOU
>  9.  Participating Subreddits
>      1. Live Counter of Subreddits Going Dark, Twitch reddark_247
>  10. Blackout and Reddit API in the Media
>  11. Resources and Further Reading
>      1. From Reddit
>      2. Official Protest Subreddits
>      3. Thoughts from Other Subreddit Moderators
>      4. 3PA Developer Announcements on the Situation


WHAT IS GOING ON?

On April 8, 2023 Reddit announced they would begin charging for usage of their
API effective June 19, 2023. In the announcement, Reddit expressed their concern
with the “expansive access to data” acquired through their API and how they
“have an obligation to [their] communities to be responsible stewards of this
content.”

As the moderators of a technical support subreddit, we could not agree more.
Currently, data from Reddit is utilized freely to train Large Language Models
(LLM), which are the base for AI technologies such as ChatGPT. As you may
imagine, this can become problematic very quickly for a multitude of reasons.
However, there are also many benefits to LLMs. Even Reddit’s engineers have
pointed out machine learning is very beneficial to Reddit.

So then what’s the big deal? We agree with Reddit for the most part, right?
Well, here’s where things get tricky: Reddit’s changes to their API, with regard
to cost and usage, introduced several issues that would drastically change how
most users use Reddit. They have stated that their goal is to make these updates
with as little disruption as possible. However, if the relevations over the past
few days have been any indication, this will not be the case.

Over the years Reddit has picked up the particularly annoying habit of failing
to follow through with their promises. From promises of building new tools for
moderators to promising to give more visibility when users follow you, Reddit
has either, at best, barely followed through with their promise or, at worst,
completely missed the mark on what they promised.


WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THIRD-PARTY REDDIT APPLICATIONS AND WHY IS
EVERYONE SCREAMING ABOUT THEM DYING BECAUSE OF REDDIT?

I’m sure you all have heard of the various third-party mobile applications. To
name a few…

 * Apollo
 * Narwhal
 * Joey
 * Reddit is Fun
 * BaconReader
 * Sync
 * Relay
 * RedReader
 * Boost
 * Infinity
 * Pager
 * ReddPlanet
 * Slide

Maybe you use one of them daily. Perhaps it is the only way you browse Reddit.
Many of them offer insane customization to tailor your Reddit experience to
exactly what you want.

These third-party applications (3PAs) rely heavily on Reddit’s API. Many of the
developers work alone on their applications as a labor of love to the Reddit
community. Most only charge a small fee for pro versions of their application.

To put it simply, Reddit gave developers of these applications very little time
to prepare. Most developers learned around the end of May what the cost would
be. Considering the changes to cost would go into effect on July 1st, giving
approximately 30 days to prepare by optimizing the applications to possibly
minimize costs and setting up models for possible subscriptions to help with
costs is ridiculous.

And what was Reddit’s response?

In his recent disaster of an AMA when asked why the timeline of charging for the
API was so strict, u/spez responded,

> “I acknowledge it was a tight timeline. For what it’s worth, we are continuing
> to chat with many of the developers who still want to work with us”.

They do not care if they made it difficult for 3PAs. They have no desire to
remedy the situation to allow 3PAs to properly prepare nor to lower costs.
Unfortunately, this has put several developers in a rough spot. Many have
already announced they will be shutting down their applications come June 30th.

We can go on and on about this, but we are not the developers and cannot give
the proper perspective on the issue. So, we have compiled a list of developers
describing the issue from their perspectives. We urge you to take the time to
read through their posts, once their subreddits are up if they are participating
in the blackout.

If anything, please read through the post made by Apollo’s developer, Christian,
as he gives a very well thought out and detailed explanation on why he has been
forced to shut down Apollo.


WHY ARE PEOPLE MENTIONING THAT IT WILL HARM THOSE THAT REQUIRE ACCESSIBLE
WEBSITES?

There is no way to put this mildly, so we’ll just come out with it. Reddit’s
lack of accessibility on their almost 18 year old website is disgraceful. The
fact that they have not implemented anything for accessibility in their official
mobile app is inexcusable. Their lack of care towards the concerns raised by the
r/blind moderators and community is disgusting.

u/spez stated in his recent AMA,

> “We are working with RedReader and Dystopia to make sure they have access and
> will continue to work with others. We’ll review requests to ensure that the
> app is non-commercial and focused on accessibility needs. Approved apps can
> use the Data API for free. For our own apps, there is no excuse. We will do
> better”.

Reddit is very aware of how awful their site is for those requiring
accessibility. It took outrage from the Reddit community for them to admit they
were wrong. And now, as we see from his statement, they are offloading the
responsibility to 3PAs, while giving very little guidance on how a 3PA will
qualify for free usage of the API.

We will have to keep our fingers crossed that Reddit will follow through with
creating a more accessible site as the free API for accessible 3PAs might only
be temporary.

We encourage you to please read through the post by r/blind moderators on the
issues they face with the possible loss of 3PAs with accessibility features.


WHAT ABOUT NSFW CONTENT?

NSFW content is available everywhere on the internet. Reddit has opted to remove
NSFW content from being available through their API. We realize it’s not easy to
see why this could create issues, however this has caused problems in the past.
We will be quoting the points made in the original post from r/ModCoord as we
feel they said it best:

>  * NSFW (18+) content and related subreddits are facing new restrictions,
>    making certain content inaccessible via the API, rendering moderation via
>    automated processes null and void.
>  * The changes are likely to lead to an increase in spam, necessitating
>    excessive human moderation or resulting in overrun communities, given the
>    significance of mature content as a traffic driver on the platform.
>  * Besides NSFW communities, these changes also affect diverse spaces like art
>    forums, minor chat rooms, and nudist lifestyle communities, which require
>    oversight of user activities in mature content domains.
>  * While the stated reasons for these restrictions include legal compliance
>    and enhancing content creator control, we argue that third-party apps could
>    implement similar measures for content display.


WHY WOULD THE MODERATORS OF A SUBREDDIT FOR TECH SUPPORT CARE ABOUT ALL OF THIS?
HOW DOES THIS AFFECT YOU?

As moderators we strive to make our subreddit a welcoming, safe, and helpful
place for our users. Over the years we have had to supplement our community with
external sources maintained by our moderator team and a group of other
volunteers. Simply put, Reddit does not offer the resources necessary for us to
fully support our community.

Since 2015 Reddit admins have been promising to build and improve tools for
moderators. Though Reddit has made some improvements over the years, it is far
from the features offered by popular moderation tools such as toolbox.

Moderators heavily rely on 3PAs to help with everyday moderation. Frankly, it is
close to impossible to moderate large subreddits without them. Losing 3PAs for
moderation would make it difficult to

 * Have a set list of commands to allow any users helping others to link to
   approved guides
 * Identify extremely active, helpful users in the subreddit
 * Moderate anything via mobile devices
 * Quickly identify posts requiring a question to be answered
 * Quickly identify spam

This is a sentiment shared by most, if not all, moderators with subreddits
participating in the blackout. Reddit’s changes to their API affects everyone.
Users and moderators. Developers and their 3PAs.

On June 6th we announced we would, along with over 3000 subreddits, go dark
starting June 12th in order to protest against the changes to the API. After
u/spez’s AMA on June 9, 2023, we decided to private the subreddit until Reddit
makes a concerted effort to reevaluate and reverse their decisions on the API
changes.


WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS TO US?

We know this decision affects our users heavily. We understand this may anger
some of you. We did not make this decision easily. As we said in our original
post on the blackout, we truly believe this is in the best interest of the
community.

We want to show Reddit there is power in numbers. Our moderators matter. Our
users matter. Our communities matter. We have a voice. Reddit cannot continue to
grow without all of us.

We want our users to know they won’t be left hanging, however. Though our
subreddit will be closed, we will have our live chat open in our Discord Server,
24/7, as it always has been. Our wiki will also be available to everyone. We ask
our users to please spread the word to others requiring tech support about these
resources.


HOW CAN WE, THE USERS, HELP?

Starting June 12th, we ask if everyone can limit or completely stop their use of
Reddit until the protest is over. This will help us with our protest. We want to
limit traffic to the site as much as possible.


YOU ARE IMPORTANT TO R/TECHSUPPORT AND WE COULDN’T DO THIS WITHOUT YOU

We want to thank you all for supporting our subreddit every day. From the users
that volunteer their time to help someone with an issue to the users asking
questions for others to find the answer to in the future, we appreciate you all
immensely.

– r/TechSupport Moderators

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


PARTICIPATING SUBREDDITS

8733 Subreddits Participating as of 13-06-2023 at 6 UTC

Plain Text List Pretty List Top Subs


LIVE COUNTER OF SUBREDDITS GOING DARK, TWITCH REDDARK_247

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


BLACKOUT AND REDDIT API IN THE MEDIA

April 18, 2023

Article

English

Paywall

The New York Times, By Mike Isaac - Reddit Wants to Get Paid for Helping to
Teach Big A.I. Systems

June 1, 2023

Article

English

CNN Business, By Brian Fung - Reddit sparks outrage after a popular app
developer said it wants him to pay $20 million a year for data access

Article

English

IGN, By Ryan Leston - New Reddit API Pricing Strategy Could Mean Big Trouble for
Popular Third-Party Apps

Article

English

CNBC, By Rohan Goswami - Reddit will charge hefty fees to the many third-party
apps that access its data

June 3, 2023

Video

English

Youtube, Snazzy Labs - How Reddit Became the Enemy - w/ Apollo Developer
Christian Selig

June 5, 2023

Video

English

Youtube, Louis Rossmann - Reddit is killing their brand in the worst possible
way

Article

English

The Verge, By Jon Porter - Major Reddit communities will go dark to protest
threat to third-party apps

Article

English

Vice Motherboard, By Jason Koebler - Reddit in Mass Revolt Over Astronomical API
Fees That Would Kill Third Party Apps

Article

German

Heise Online - Protest gegen API-Preise: Große Subreddits werden tagelang
stillgelegt

Article

English

PC Gamer, By Andy Chalk - Major subreddit admins are going to war with Reddit
over monetization changes that will kill many third-party apps

Article

English

Ars Technica, By Ron Amadeo - Reddit’s plan to kill third-party apps sparks
widespread protests

Article

English

The Register, By Brandon Vigiarolo - Reddit blackout planned over app-killing
API prices

Article

English

Dexerto, By Brad Norton - Why is there a Reddit blackout? June 12 revolt planned
amid backlash over API changes

June 6, 2023

Article

Dutch

Tweakers, By Rard van der Hoeven, Vijf vragen over het protest tegen de geplande
api-aanpassingen van Reddit

Article

English

Paywall

Bloomberg, By Priya Anand - Reddit on New Pricing Plan: Company ‘Needs to Be
Fairly Paid’

Article

English

Windows Central, By Cole Martin - Top Reddit communities going dark to protest
third-party API charges

Article

English

The Independent, By Anthony Cuthbertson - Reddit blackout: More than 1,000
subreddits to go dark in protest to new changes

Article

English

Kotaku, By Luke Plunkett - Reddit Communities Are ‘Going Dark’ To Protest Wildly
Unpopular App Changes

Article

English

PCMag, By Marco Marcelline - Popular Subreddits Going Dark to Protest Reddit
Charging for API Access

June 7, 2023

Video

English

Youtube, LMG Clips - Reddit Hates Their Users

Article

English

SFGATE, By Stephen Council - Reddit announces plan to lay off 90 workers as
subreddits plan mass protest

Article

English

Techinnowire - Reddit’s New API Pricing: A Boon or Bane for User Experience?

Article

English

Engadget, By Karissa Bell - Reddit says some accessibility apps won’t have to
pay for its API

Article

English

Adnroid Authority, By C. Scott Brown -
https://www.engadget.com/reddit-says-some-accessibility-apps-wont-have-to-pay-for-its-api-213401412.html

Article

English

The Verge, By Jay Peters - Reddit will exempt accessibility-focused apps from
its unpopular API pricing changes

June 8, 2023

Article

English

TechCrunch, By Sarah Perez - Reddit makes an exception for accessibility apps
under new API terms

Article

English

The Verge, By Jay Peters - Apollo for Reddit is shutting down

Article

English

MacRumors, By Juli Clover - Popular Reddit App Apollo Shutting Down on June 30

Article

English

9To5Mac, By Zac Hall - Apollo shutting down due to Reddit’s unaffordable API

Article

English

Engadget, By Karissa Bell - Reddit CEO will host an AMA on API changes as
thousands of subreddits plan to ‘go dark’

June 9, 2023

Video

English

Youtube, Linus Tech Tips - Ban me, Twitch! - WAN Show June 9, 2023

Video

English

Youtube, SomeOrdinaryGamers - We Have To Talk About The Reddit Blackout

Article

English

Evening Standard, By Saqib Shah - Reddit blackout: Why subreddits are protesting
to save third-party apps

Article

German

Heise Online, By Martin Holland - Teure API-Preise bei Reddit: Beliebte
Dritt-Anwendung Apollo wird eingestellt

Article

English

TechCrunch, By Sarah Perez - Reddit CEO doubles down on attack on Apollo
developer in drama-filled AMA

Article

English

BBC, By Tom Gerken - Reddit blackout: Subreddits to go private on Monday

Article

English

Android Authority, By C. Scott Brown - Reddit CEO does AMA, doesn’t address or
even mention upcoming subreddit protests

Article

English

Tech Monitor, By Ryan Morrison - Reddit apps to shut down over API pricing hike
which could see bills hit $20m a year

Article

English

University of Minnesota Twin Cities - Upcoming Reddit blackout and the future of
third-party applications

Article

English

LifeHacker, By Beth Skwarecki - Why Your Favorite Subreddits Are Going Dark on
June 12

June 10, 2023

Video

English

Youtube, Louis Rossmann - A word on reddit, blackouts, & effective protesting

Article

English

Wired, By Boone Ashworth - The Reddit App War Is Getting Messy

Article

English

Sportskeeda, By Aniket Srivastava - Why are NFL communities joining Reddit
blackout? Exploring issues around API changes

Article

English

The Scotsman, By Charlotte Hawes - Reddit blackout: Subreddits to be made
private in huge protest - here’s why

June 11, 2023

Video

English

NBC Bay Area - Reddit communities to go dark Monday to protest third-party app
changes

Article

English

Insider, By Jyoti Mann - Reddit users are planning a 48-hour blackout to protest
its new pricing policy

Article

English

Yahoo News, By Anna Bernardo - Dota 2, VALORANT, other gaming subreddits to join
Reddit Blackout

Article

English

Tech Times, By John Lopez - Gaming Subreddits Join Reddit Blackout Against
Drastic API Pricing Hike

Article

English

Mac Rumors, By Joe Rossignol - Apple Subreddit Goes Dark in Protest of Reddit’s
API Pricing Changes

Article

English

Apple Insider, By Malcolm Owen - All the Apple subreddits set to go dark in
protest of Reddit’s API charges

Article

English

The Guardian, By Alex Hern - Reddit communities to ‘go dark’ in protest over
third-party app charges

June 12, 2023

Video

English

Youtube, penguinz0 - The Death of Reddit

Video

English

Youtube, Philip DeFranco - This Pride Controversy Has Gotten Out of Control,
Reddit Blackout, & Cracker Barrel Has Fallen…

Video

English

Youtube, Fireship - Reddit’s API rug pull

Article

English

Washington Post, By Shera Avi-Yonah, Annabelle Timsit - Why have many Reddit
communities gone private? The blackout, explained.

Article

English

Sky News, By Tom Acres - Reddit blackout: Thousands of communities are doing
dark today - here’s why

Article

English

Aljazeera, By Mohammed Haddad - Why are thousands of Reddit pages going dark for
48 hours?

Article

English

Paywall

Bloomberg, By Alex Millson - Reddit Blackout Begins as Forums Protest Charges
for Developers

Article

English

Independent, By Anthony Cuthbertson, Vishwam Sankaran - Reddit blackout: More
than 3,000 subreddits to go dark in protest to new changes

Article

English

Insider, By Lina Batarags - Reddit users are going on a 48-hour blackout. Here
are the biggest subreddits that won’t be available during this time.

Article

Japanese

Soft Antenna - Redditの大規模ストライキが始まる。API利用料金の大幅値上げに多くのユーザーが反発

Article

English

Paywall

Los Angeles Times, By Helen Li - Thousands of Reddit communities go dark to
protest new data fees

Article

English

Reuters - Explainer: Reddit protest: Why are thousands of subreddits going dark?

Article

English

Yahoo Finance, By Karissa Bell - Reddit sees more than 6,000 communities ‘go
dark’ in protest over API changes

Article

English

NBC News, By David Ingram - Reddit communities go private to protest pricing
plan for apps

Article

English

Ars Technica, By Scharon Harding - API pricing protests caused Reddit to crash
for 3 hours

Article

English

Paywall

The New York Times, By Michael Levenson - Reddit Communities Go Dark to Protest
New App Policy

Article

English

Android Police, By Manuel Vonau - Reddit blackout explained: Why subreddits have
gone dark

Article

English

CBC, By Aloysius Wong - What’s going on with Reddit today?

Article

Portuguese

Expresso 50, By Hugo Séneca - Mais de 6500 grupos de debate do Reddit estão em
greve. Será que o Reddit cede?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


RESOURCES AND FURTHER READING


FROM REDDIT

 * An Update Regarding Reddit’s API
 * Addressing the community about changes to our API
 * Data API Terms
 * Developer Terms


OFFICIAL PROTEST SUBREDDITS

 * r/Save3rdPartyApps
   * What We Want
   * Don’t Let Reddit Kill 3rd Party Apps!
   * Reddit is killing 3rd-party Apps (infographic)
   * Reddit Blackout 2023 - Save 3rd Party Apps!
 * r/ModCoord
   * What is this subreddit? What is happening here?
   * An open letter on the state of affairs regarding the API pricing and third
     party apps and how that will impact moderators and communities.
   * These API changes are spreading the cracks in our already overtaxed
     community teams
   * Reddit held a call today with some developers regarding the API changes.
     Here are some thoughts along with the call notes.
   * CEO spez AMA Overview
   * Today’s AMA With Spez Did Nothing to Alleviate Concerns: An Open Response
   * Reddit Blackout 2023 - Save 3rd Party Apps


THOUGHTS FROM OTHER SUBREDDIT MODERATORS

 * AskHistorians and uncertainty surrounding the future of API access
 * The future of /r/videos.


3PA DEVELOPER ANNOUNCEMENTS ON THE SITUATION

 * Apollo
 * Sync
 * Reddit is Fun
 * Narwhal
 * RedReader
 * Boost (A small response to a question)
 * ReddPlanet
 * Pager
 * Slide

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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