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GDT: SENATORS @ FLAMES | 9PM | TSN2, SNW, RDS | THE TURNSTILE OF TURNCOAT
TURNAROUNDS EDITION
* Thread starter AchtzehnBaby
* Start date Sunday at 5:12 PM
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GUUSE
REGISTERED USER
Feb 5, 2010 19,181 7,503
* Tuesday at 10:35 PM
*
* #926
> Burrowsaurus said:
> …4 straight cup finals…3 and 1 in those finals…or is it 3 straight?
> Click to expand...
Holy shit that's an incredible dishonest response. It's not like benching his
best players has been routine.
*
Reactions: Relapsing
ACHTZEHNBABY
GLOBAL MATADOR
Mar 28, 2013 12,112 6,562 Hazeldean Road
* Tuesday at 10:54 PM
*
* #927
> AchtzehnBaby said:
> 2015 during the Hamburglar run
>
>
> Click to expand...
Same score …same date
PIERRE FROM ORLEANS
REGISTERED USER
May 9, 2007 23,048 11,763
* Tuesday at 10:55 PM
*
* #928
> Guuse said:
> How has that worked out for Tampa? Not to mention the situations are in no way
> comparable. Benching players are a tool and it's one that DJ has used. It's
> not to only way and not something you can do over and over. Brannstrom gets
> scratched not because of accountability, rather he just isn't effective enough
> to warrant a spot in the lineup.
> Click to expand...
And Dylan Gambrell warrants a spot in the lineup?
GUUSE
REGISTERED USER
Feb 5, 2010 19,181 7,503
* Tuesday at 11:07 PM
*
* #929
> Pierre from Orleans said:
> And Dylan Gambrell warrants a spot in the lineup?
> Click to expand...
I mean he's been scratched more often than Brannstrom. The only reason he is
playing so much recently is lack of competition at C.
BURROWSAURUS
REGISTERED USER
Mar 20, 2013 37,293 12,452
* Yesterday at 7:47 AM
*
* #930
> Guuse said:
> Holy shit that's an incredible dishonest response. It's not like benching his
> best players has been routine.
> Click to expand...
He’s clearly a coach willing to do it. And his players know it and have known it
*
Reactions: NB613
MICKLEBOT
MODERATOR
Apr 27, 2010 46,180 23,363
* Yesterday at 8:02 AM
*
* #931
> Burrowsaurus said:
> He’s clearly a coach willing to do it. And his players know it and have known
> it
> Click to expand...
And when he actually did it, it backfired.
He's also the same coach who got swept in the first round after winning the
president's trophy.
How much of his record is him, and how much is the roster, did the coach get
them swept, or the roster, did the coach get them to the SCF or the roster?
BURROWSAURUS
REGISTERED USER
Mar 20, 2013 37,293 12,452
* Yesterday at 8:46 AM
*
* #932
> Micklebot said:
> And when he actually did it, it backfired.
>
> He's also the same coach who got swept in the first round after winning the
> president's trophy.
>
> How much of his record is him, and how much is the roster, did the coach get
> them swept, or the roster, did the coach get them to the SCF or the roster?
> Click to expand...
Like many things. Or even all things. Both.
*
Reactions: Emrasie
COSMIX
HFBOARDS SPONSOR
Sponsor
Jul 24, 2011 14,967 4,950 Ottawa
* Yesterday at 12:02 PM
*
* #933
> Union2017 said:
> How do they take responsibility when nobody holds them accountable? I am sure
> they don’t like losing and they are actually trying to do too much sometimes.
>
> The bottom line is, DJ is not doing what the good coach should be doing.
> Accountability is one of many things on that list. I pretty much would bet
> anything that this group would be in a playoff sport had they have someone
> like Trotz as their coach as of May last year.
> Click to expand...
I think we need to replace Dorion as soon as the new owner is in place. Let the
new GM hire his own coaching, scouting and development staff.
UNION2017
HE PROVED ME WRONG - PIERRE, THE MAGNIFICENT BEAST
Feb 23, 2018 1,407 1,748 Ottawa
* Yesterday at 12:05 PM
*
* #934
> Cosmix said:
> I think we need to replace Dorion as soon as the new owner is in place. Let
> the new GM hire his own coaching, scouting and development staff.
> Click to expand...
That's probably what will happen, I think. But I could be wrong. I also wonder
what Alfie's relationship with Dorion is like.
COSMIX
HFBOARDS SPONSOR
Sponsor
Jul 24, 2011 14,967 4,950 Ottawa
* Yesterday at 12:06 PM
*
* #935
> Guuse said:
> It's because of plays like this....
>
>
>
> 10 seconds left in the period. You are out for a d zone face off and you make
> a half ass play like that on the boards. If this team wants to take the next
> step, it doesn't matter who the coach is when the players are the ice are
> making plays like that.
> Click to expand...
I think it was Stutzle who made that feeble panic clearing attempt along the
boards. I like Stutzle and he is certainly skillfull. He would learn a lot from
a competent coaching staff.
> Union2017 said:
> That's probably what will happen, I think. But I could be wrong. I also wonder
> what Alfie's relationship with Dorion is like.
> Click to expand...
I do not know what Alfie's relationship with Dorion is, nor what type of
position and role he would want with the team. I think it would be best if he
started as an assistant coach or assistant GM to learn first before taking on
more senior roles. Perhaps even those assistant roles might be too much too soon
for him.
COSMIX
HFBOARDS SPONSOR
Sponsor
Jul 24, 2011 14,967 4,950 Ottawa
* Yesterday at 12:12 PM
*
* #936
> Pain said:
> The #1 role of a coach to me is get the most out of the roster you have. To do
> that you gotta motivate players to get better and shelter them effectively to
> build and regain confidence. Put systems and assignments in that you know the
> players on your team can play too.
> Click to expand...
Coaches need to educate the players too, telling them what they expect from them
and holding them accountable if they do not do things as requested.
GUUSE
REGISTERED USER
Feb 5, 2010 19,181 7,503
* Yesterday at 12:33 PM
*
* #937
> Cosmix said:
> I think it was Stutzle who made that feeble panic clearing attempt along the
> boards. I like Stutzle and he is certainly skillfull. He would learn a lot
> from a competent coaching staff.
> Click to expand...
I think he has learned a lot from this coaching staff and could learn more from
others. There’s somethings you don’t need to be told as a NHL player though.
It’s a selfish play. He didn’t want to take contact. That shits got to go. If
they want to take the next step an on ice leader like Stutzle has to play like
one. Doesn’t matter who the coach is.
*
Reactions: Cosmix
COSMIX
HFBOARDS SPONSOR
Sponsor
Jul 24, 2011 14,967 4,950 Ottawa
* Yesterday at 12:43 PM
*
* #938
> Guuse said:
> I think he has learned a lot from this coaching staff and could learn more
> from others. There’s somethings you don’t need to be told as a NHL player
> though. It’s a selfish play. He didn’t want to take contact. That shits got to
> go. If they want to take the next step an on ice leader like Stutzle has to
> play like one. Doesn’t matter who the coach is.
> Click to expand...
I agree. As he is quite young I think he will improve in the future.
*
Reactions: Guuse
XSPYRIT
DJ DORION
Jun 29, 2008 28,658 7,739 Montreal, Canada
* Yesterday at 6:14 PM
*
* #939
> Burrowsaurus said:
> Many teams would kill to be painted into this corner. Cannot fault Dorion for
> the core he’s put together. Two top centers. 3 top pairing d men. 2 elite
> wingers.
> Click to expand...
Dorion hasn't done much, despite the public belief. He didn't mess up the
Tkachuk, Stutzle and Sanderson picks I guess (4th, 3rd and 5th OA). Keep in mind
we didn't have our 4th OA pick in 2019 (Byram? Cozens? Zegras? Boldy?). We also
screwed up on the 10th OA pick in 2021...
Rebuilding from earth scratch is not very hard, you sell your assets as high as
possible and make sure you don't mess up your lottery picks
Dorion was in an extremely enviable position when the rebuild started (January
2018 in Barbados?). All these other teams rebuilding wish they had some
Karlsson, Stone, Duchene, etc level assets for trade with an already good
prospect pool (Chabot, White, Batherson, Formenton, Paul, etc)
Adding Giroux was one of the most profitable moves (some would say we were lucky
there). Getting DeBrincat and Chychrun was great but HIGH 1st round picks are
pretty damn valuable nowadays. We paid very decent prices but no other team
would be able to beat these pieces in quality
Anyway, we'll see if the make up of the team is enough to win but as of now,
despite all the talent, it doesn't look very promising. Maybe a new coaching
staff will change everything
Last edited: Yesterday at 6:19 PM
BOXBOX
REGISTERED USER
Sep 8, 2022 166 72
* Today at 8:17 AM
*
* #940
> Burrowsaurus said:
> Well clearly brannstrom has the shortest leash. In game no but like in the
> room or practice.
>
>
> Yeah it does. And the future will too lol. So I don’t understand the “what
> other coaches are out there?? You seriously think ANYONE can do any better?”
> Sentiment. Yes there are other coaches out there. I beleive that others can do
> better. And he’s the coach. I’ll change the coach before changing the core of
> the team
> Click to expand...
If someone that does not follow the Sens or the NHL in general, dove into the
content on here, they would most likely assume this team was a lock to win the
cup this year, had it not been for the teams highly unqualified coach the Sens
gm found in a cereal box the team fell 1 win shy of 66 for the season; a slight
improvement from the 33 wins a season ago, all players wore ear pods through out
games/practices as they completely tuned out the coach, Norris retired from
hockey after being convinced hes a non factor to the teams success.
So you believe others can do better? fair enough....so then you believe the Sens
should be a lock for the playoffs ? have more wins since coaching is that bad ?
Like what does "better" look like for a team in the position/phase they are inn
? would you want change if the played well but kept losing ?
BOXBOX
REGISTERED USER
Sep 8, 2022 166 72
* Today at 8:51 AM
*
* #941
> Union2017 said:
> We scored how many on Chicago, Vancouver and Calgary. Let’s not pretend we are
> Oilers here.
> Click to expand...
bad road trip it happens...there are good and bad stretches, it would be more
worry-some if every good game was followed by an awful one, all streaks come to
an end...it is not enjoyable for sure... sens goaltending is awful this season;
like laughable bad, when the goalies play steady with slightly above .905 save %
and GAA of slightly bellow 3, the results are great, theres been very few
instances this season where the goalie has great stats in loss...some very ugly
numbers in some loses...
Can't blame the rookie goalies, good lesson/experience, and can't really fault
Talbot for being made of glass, I'll just blame the coach and gm
BURROWSAURUS
REGISTERED USER
Mar 20, 2013 37,293 12,452
* Today at 8:56 AM
*
* #942
> boxbox said:
> If someone that does not follow the Sens or the NHL in general, dove into the
> content on here, they would most likely assume this team was a lock to win the
> cup this year, had it not been for the teams highly unqualified coach the Sens
> gm found in a cereal box the team fell 1 win shy of 66 for the season; a
> slight improvement from the 33 wins a season ago, all players wore ear pods
> through out games/practices as they completely tuned out the coach, Norris
> retired from hockey after being convinced hes a non factor to the teams
> success.
>
> So you believe others can do better? fair enough....so then you believe the
> Sens should be a lock for the playoffs ? have more wins since coaching is that
> bad ? Like what does "better" look like for a team in the position/phase they
> are inn ? would you want change if the played well but kept losing ?
> Click to expand...
Do you think there’s a difference between how much you lose and how you lose? I
do? I expected this team to be right where it is. But with acceptable defence.
We have not seen acceptable team defence.
BOXBOX
REGISTERED USER
Sep 8, 2022 166 72
* Today at 10:33 AM
*
* #943
> Xspyrit said:
> Dorion hasn't done much, despite the public belief. He didn't mess up the
> Tkachuk, Stutzle and Sanderson picks I guess (4th, 3rd and 5th OA). Keep in
> mind we didn't have our 4th OA pick in 2019 (Byram? Cozens? Zegras? Boldy?).
> We also screwed up on the 10th OA pick in 2021...
>
> Rebuilding from earth scratch is not very hard, you sell your assets as high
> as possible and make sure you don't mess up your lottery picks
>
> Dorion was in an extremely enviable position when the rebuild started (January
> 2018 in Barbados?). All these other teams rebuilding wish they had some
> Karlsson, Stone, Duchene, etc level assets for trade with an already good
> prospect pool (Chabot, White, Batherson, Formenton, Paul, etc)
>
> Adding Giroux was one of the most profitable moves (some would say we were
> lucky there). Getting DeBrincat and Chychrun was great but HIGH 1st round
> picks are pretty damn valuable nowadays. We paid very decent prices but no
> other team would be able to beat these pieces in quality
>
> Anyway, we'll see if the make up of the team is enough to win but as of now,
> despite all the talent, it doesn't look very promising. Maybe a new coaching
> staff will change everything
> Click to expand...
You can't say high 1st round picks are valuable and then if they don't pan out
blame the team for screwing up. No pick is really ever guaranteed. 1st overall
and 2nd usually are sure bets, 3-5 safe bets, 10 th you will most likely get an
NHLer down the road but how good will they be no one knows. Not forgetting how
long they will take to develop. The risk aspect will always be there. So giving
up 1st round picks for proven commodities like a top pairing D man entering his
prime and a player who is top 5 in the NHL in total goals scored the last few
seasons is a great return (I know it was more then than just one pick)
The way you present this leaves out a lot important info. Like for example all
the drama around the team at that time with EK wife being directly involved in
some of it, EK being the captain of the team let personal drama into the locker
room, all of it being on public display...but hey thats on Dorion right....
There have also been multiple scenarios where it simply came down to the player
refusing the trade because of the destination.
EK is a great talent but byeond personal achievements he has very few team ones.
The return was fair considering the bagage EK carried at that time. SJ went from
contender to lottery favorites under EK and of course he has his best season in
year in the most meaning less team season. Majority of the rebuilding teams all
had multiple picks in the top 3 and some even multiple 1st overall picks , while
Ottawa had just the 3rd in 2020, not forgetting Ottawa losing draft position,
Ottawa got lucky with Tim and Brady because those are the type of players 1-2
picks fetch. Ottawa is actually ahead of some of the teams with far fewer top
picks.
Rebuilds are not easy, look at Buffalo, Edmonton, even NJ just how long it took
to get it finally in what appears the right direction, and all those teams have
multiple 1st overall picks (elite franchise type players)
More than anything the goal-tending needs to be reassessed and do whatever
necessary to get it back on track. With steady goaltendng this team is a playoff
team. With elite goaltending this team has the potential to be very good.
The team is winning, a few games over 0.500 is winning ? for all bad luck or
whatever this season the experience from it all is something that cant be
thought or bought
BOXBOX
REGISTERED USER
Sep 8, 2022 166 72
* Today at 11:00 AM
*
* #944
> Burrowsaurus said:
> Do you think there’s a difference between how much you lose and how you lose?
> I do? I expected this team to be right where it is. But with acceptable
> defence. We have not seen acceptable team defence.
> Click to expand...
I did ask you.... " would you want change if the played well but kept losing ?"
I do know the difference, but in the end the team that gets 16 wins lifts the
cup and not the team with good breakouts from the zones...there is no style
points
So if the defense was better ,do you think the team would have more wins ? thus
exceeding your expectations ?
Defense is not the problem, look at the goalie stats for all LOSES this season.
As a rookie he gets a pass but he still have a job to do. A good goalie can make
an average defense look great, a bad goalie can make a good defense look worse
BURROWSAURUS
REGISTERED USER
Mar 20, 2013 37,293 12,452
* Today at 11:34 AM
*
* #945
> boxbox said:
> I did ask you.... " would you want change if the played well but kept losing
> ?"
>
> I do know the difference, but in the end the team that gets 16 wins lifts the
> cup and not the team with good breakouts from the zones...there is no style
> points
>
> So if the defense was better ,do you think the team would have more wins ?
> thus exceeding your expectations ?
>
> Defense is not the problem, look at the goalie stats for all LOSES this
> season. As a rookie he gets a pass but he still have a job to do. A good
> goalie can make an average defense look great, a bad goalie can make a good
> defense look worse
> Click to expand...
No I don’t think we would have more wins and if we did it wouldn’t be much more.
And maybe we would have some more losses to even if out.
I did not think we would make the playoffs this year.
Well to your last paragraph I simply disagree. We break down defensively way too
often
We don’t need a goalie that can make an average defence look good. We need a
goalie who can make a bad defence (and I’m talking team defence not the d corps)
look good.
Stats are stats. I’m watching the games. You’re watching the games. We are are
terrible in our zone. Even the shots that can be stopped come off egregious
defensive zone breakdowns. Like “goalie should have had that”. Yeah. Maybe. But
why were there 2 guys wide open in our slot? And the sad thing is. Those guys
are going to get open again and again and again and again and again. All game
long. The odd man rushes this road trip alone lol… I meeeaaaannnnn. Cmon. Would
you like a stop on some. Sure. But cmon. Help your goalie out. Sogaard has let
in like 40 goals in his like 4 starts (yes I knooooow the number isn’t 40) but
he’s somehow also made multiple incredible point blank saves lol. Which isn’t me
defending sogaard. It’s saying that even with the goals going in. There are
other ghastly breakdowns that DONT end up in our net.
I I think I can count all comfortable defensive zone possessions on this road
trip on one hand.
And “let’s go get a goalie that can bail us out every game” is not sustainable
and likely not even possibly.
BURROWSAURUS
REGISTERED USER
Mar 20, 2013 37,293 12,452
* Today at 11:55 AM
*
* #946
Someone on Twitter mentioned how much better our new players look as soon as
they get here vs when they’re in DJs systems
Joseph. Chychrun.
Even debrincat at the start of the year was absolutely flying.
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