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PERSONALITIESMAR 23, 2005


ROUNDTABLE: STREET ART

by Pitchaya Sudbanthad

It’s art, it’s play, it’s political protest—no matter what it’s called, street
art is all around us, changing the face of our cities when no one’s looking. So
what is it exactly? We round up some of the legends of the scene to talk about
the history of street art, and where it’s headed next.

By night and by day, invisible hands are laying claim to the walls of New York
City. They work quickly and are gone before anyone notices. What they leave
behind is art, if not, a message. The prints, stencils, stickers, and other
objects await discovery by a passing pedestrian—perhaps a woman walking a dog,
perhaps a sales clerk on his way to night school—but unlike nearly everything
else that decorates our public space, these communications are not hawking the
latest shoes or the newest low-carb beer. Street art is many things. It is a
resistance against the notion that only paid-for corporate advertising can take
hold in our visual commons; the monopoly is to be broken. Street art appears
underneath and along side of sanctioned billboards, sometimes replacing them.
Other times, it appears on bare walls far from most people’s gaze. It is public
playfulness. It is a gift, a knowing nod, to those who notice.

Street art is frequently confused with graffiti, but street artists often use
formal art techniques—printmaking, silk-screening, even sculpting—in contrast to
the immediate, almost painterly methods of spray-can-wielding graffiti artists.
In this way, street art has survived and proliferated in the face of police
crackdowns. It has adopted the propagative mechanisms of print and advertising
culture to remain elusive, widespread, and relevant, all at the same time.

More than just surviving, the movement has entered global popular culture. More
and more people now participate in street art, not just in New York, but in
places like London, Berlin, Tokyo, and Rio de Janeiro. There are magazines and
art galleries devoted to street art. Even some large corporations have noticed
and are looking at using street art as a way to reach young and design-conscious
consumers.

This roundtable interview gathers a few of the people involved in the scene to
talk more about the past, present, and future of street art.


THE CONTRIBUTORS

Michael De Feo, also known as the Flower Guy, recently published a children’s
book, Alphabet City. (medefeo.com, alphabetcitybook.com)

Patrick is part of the well-known street-art and design group Faile. (faile.net)

Swoon’s cutout and block prints have appeared on walls all over New York City,
among many other places all around the world. (TMN profile)

Dan Witz has been making street art in New York City since the 1970s.
(danwitzstreetart.com)

Wooster Collective, run by Marc and Sarah, spotlights street art around the
world. (woostercollective.com)



 



In the touchstone book Taking the Train, Joe Austin described how in the booming
years of graffiti, the word “street” had become associated with urban crisis:
crime, poverty, and disorder. What does the word “street” in street art mean to
you right now?

Swoon: It’s my impression that the word “street” came to mean urban crisis at a
time when new highways were being paved leading directly to the suburbs. People
with any means were busy figuring out how to isolate themselves in their cars
and gated communities. In some ways this is still going on. Sprawl is still
eating up the American landscape, but I think there is a kind of awakening going
on about the need for dense public spaces. There lies the sentiment behind the
newly reborn popularity of the word. To me, the word “street” means the river of
cleverly organized chaos in which I am always trying to ride my bike. It is the
common space that connects everyone to everyone else in one way or another.

Michael De Feo: I look at the “street” in the same way I look at New York City:
a never-ending source of excitement and inspiration. By contributing to the
street, in my own small way, I contribute to New York.

Dan Witz: Street art for me has always meant freedom from the artist’s
game—galleries, the career machine, all that frustrating, soul-sucking,
dissatisfying bullshit. Going out on a street mission is my unsupervised
playtime—no responsibility, no expectations, no need to worry about the
artwork’s life outside that moment.



Dan Witz




Nothing against the art world—I happen to love art museums and galleries, and
that’s how I’m lucky enough to make my living—but that kind of art is protected,
isolated from real life (which is part of why I like it). I think I use the
street-art side of my work to balance myself out, to keep me awake, and exposed,
and uncomfortable.

Patrick of Faile: “Street art” is a term that helps to define everything in
terms of the art in our urban landscape outside of what is otherwise known as
graffiti. The term itself I have come to find very annoying over time through
overuse, something like way the word “dude” can be used by someone over and over
again. I feel as if the term has been used so much that it has become watered
down, and in a way, so has street art itself. If I had to give a proper
definition of the term, it would sound like Dan Witz’s definition.

Wooster Collective: When most people first hear the words “street art,” they
immediately think of urban settings and industrial locations. But some of the
most interesting and exciting street art is being done in the most unlikely of
places and far from city centers. We consider Andy Goldsworthy a “street
artist,” yet his work is almost never found on the street and is most often
placed in extremely remote and rural settings. Before the internet, to be
included a community of street or graffiti artists you had to place your art
next to others.’ And the cities became the galleries. The major cities became
places for graffiti artists to share their work and become known. But with the
internet, an artist can put work up anywhere in the world and then through a
website or a photo log, with a digital camera, they can share their work with
others around the world.

Street art is about using your environment as a collaborator. City streets can
be incredibly vibrant canvases for artists to work with. But more and more,
artists are discovering that other settings can be equally exciting. If you look
around you will see street art in the countryside, on the beach, in the
mountains.

The Wooster Collective bring up a good point about the availability of
information in street-art circles, especially in light of the internet. What
have been some effects of this connectivity, considering cultural, political,
and economic differences around the world? Is there also a negative side effect?
What has your international experience been like?

Patrick of Faile: The internet has made making a living from this type of art
much easier, because it allows artists to expose their work to a much wider
audience. The widened distribution has, in turn, helped us to diversify our
business, in a way. When things slow in one market or city, we can work in
others, helping us not to overexpose our work in one particular city. Through
the internet we have been invited to do shows in cities around the world. Not
only is it great to be able to bring your work to other cities, but it’s also
great to be exposed to new cultures and fresh new ideas, which I think is
invaluable to an artist. We have become so inspired by all the countries we have
visited. It’s important to get out of the U.S. and see things firsthand and not
just on the TV. You cannot grow as an artist sitting on your couch. We have
grown as artists, have met friends we love, and have been able to keep Faile
moving on so many other levels other than just on the New York end. I would have
to say that Faile has been financially supported mostly through the foreign
contacts we have made along the way. When you are bringing art to people around
the world with good intentions, politics seem to take a back seat. People open
up to you and things happen that you could never imagine.



Patrick of Faile



M. De Feo: The internet allows the casual observer and the people that regularly
follow street art to look at work that is otherwise inaccessible. Sites like
Wooster Collective are invaluable. How else can you traverse the globe in a few
minutes from the comfort of your own home to see brand new work in the streets?
It really is incredible.

There’s an interesting contradiction to experiencing street art on the internet,
and in books and magazines. Although, as media, they bring our work closer to an
audience, they also distance the audience from the street art as well. The
experience of being on the street and having the work engage you in a very
personal way is an important element to taking in street art. Works on the
street are not curated. You don’t know what’s coming and where it is going to
be. The element of surprise is a wonderful part of encountering street art. That
doesn’t really exist when you’re online.

That being said, the internet has enabled me to travel and meet people from
around the world. Street artists seem to have this amazing hospitality allowing
each other to crash on their sofas whenever they’re in town. I agree with
Patrick that through good intentions, amazing things happen. There are so many
different people in so many different places that share our passion… it’s
awesome.



M. De Feo



Swoon: I can be fairly antiquated in my lifestyle and work methods, so it never
would have occurred to me to have a website or even an email address attached to
my work, but my good friend who started up a design and music collective called
Change Agent made a page for me and insisted that I maintain my contact
information on the site. It seemed funny at first, but through that contact info
I began receiving thank-you mails from people whose buildings I had just
decorated. Shortly thereafter, I helped students in Sweden write their
dissertations, and there seemed to be something intrinsically right about this.
I work on the street for a number of reasons, one of which is the desire to
communicate with people. For me, the internet has represented a sort of
barometer of the success of that communication. I’ve received so many stories
about my work that I would have no way of hearing otherwise, and I appreciate
the way the internet allows us to broaden our communication in its funny,
isolating, trapped-behind-a-computer-screen kind of way.

Dan Witz: I’ve made lots of international contacts through my website. There’s
no question that the internet is why street art’s the huge rockin’ scene it is
today. And full credit goes to the Wooster Collective for doing a tireless and
magnificent job of shepherding us all along. They light a fire daily.

Street art and graffiti has its roots in rebellion; it’s a medium for the
disenfranchised. By nature it threatens the status quo. With the advent of the
internet and cheap digital sampling technology, and with parallel developments
in music and skater/low-brow culture, and then, with George Bush ramming his
fascist agenda down the world’s throats…street artists are speaking up. Or so it
seems. If you believe what you see on the internet…



Dan Witz



Anyway, God bless the internet. It may be our only hope.

The negative side effect of all this is that now that street art is so in
fashion, I gotta say (sorry, folks), it’s inevitably got to go out of fashion.

Wooster Collective: Like most things, the internet has both positive and
negative effects. But for us, the positive effects clearly outweigh the
negative.

The most positive effect is that the internet allows the movement to be
completely inclusive on a global level. The current street-art movement is a
global phenomenon that is being fueled largely by the internet. Most places,
even the most remote, have internet cafés, and because of this, artists have the
ability to join the global community of artists who are drawn to the street.
With the internet you now don’t have to live in New York, Paris, London,
Barcelona, or São Paulo to get your work up and get noticed.

On the negative side, the internet is also diluting the quality of the art
that’s on the streets. The internet makes it far too easy to quickly slap
something together on a sticker, put it up on the lamppost outside your house,
take a photo of it with your digital camera, and then suddenly feel like you’re
now due mad props for being a “street artist.” We see so much “biting” (copying
other people’s style and imagery) out there that it has become very frustrating.
Too many people are using the internet to copy other artists rather than develop
their own style. Most artists start by copying others before they develop their
own style. But they don’t expect recognition while they are experimenting. Young
street artists often think that they are due recognition in this experimental
phase and this can be very frustrating to deal with.

Will the internet lead to street art’s eventually falling out of favor?
Probably. The same things that fueled a rapid rise in popularity in street art
will unfortunately, eventually, also fuel its rapid decline of popularity. Like
the art itself, the street-art movement may indeed be ephemeral. For us, that’s
OK. We’re inspired by it each and every day. It doesn’t need to last for ever to
be important to us.

Patrick of Faile: When I mentioned earlier that I was burned out on the term
“street art” and I felt it was watered down, I was referring to what Wooster
Collective talked about in this last answer but neglected to put it into such
fine words. Sometimes I feel it is a free-for-all out there and there is a lot
of crap put up without much energy behind it. In a way, its feels less edited or
thought-out than it used to be, and more of a situation where people just want
to throw up images on the street to be part of something they think is cool,
like wearing a flannel shirt during the grunge days because it was in style.



Patrick of Faile



But maybe this train of thought is all focused in the wrong direction. What if
it’s not just for style, but to really express oneself, even if it is with one
sticker? Not everybody can dedicate their time and work all to art, but they
have now learned through seeing street art in action that they, too, can have a
voice and a free platform to participate. In the end, it’s all good. I want our
streets back, and I open my arms to whomever, even though I might think your
shit is wack.

One thing about street art is that its images have entered popular consciousness
and have become pretty market-friendly. I recently talked to the street artist
Abe Lincoln Jr., who pointed out that street art has roots not only in graffiti,
but also in the wheat-paste posters and stickers of punk and skateboarding
culture. We’ve seen what has happened with these cultures as commercial
interests take hold. Still, artists have to make a living. How are you balancing
this? Can artists really separate the art that’s in the street from the art
that’s on a coffee mug?

Dan Witz: I’ve never had much luck making a living from my street art. Usually I
just about break even. I have to admit I still have a deep-seated prejudice that
if I did hit the cash and prizes, the quality of the work would suffer. But
that’s me. Early on, in my formative art school/noise band years, the rebellion
du jour was punk, a kind of knee-jerk/fuck-off/no-sell-out programming that’s
been a hard mindset for me to break out of. Back then, aggressively
merchandising something like your nihilist noise band or your high-risk street
art was considered suspect. Commercial success was by definition compromising
and signaled a lack of integrity. With my easel paintings, it’s always been
clear; they’re products, they come from the heart and if I’m lucky they’re gonna
be sold to rich people. No conflict. It pays for my street stuff.

This is what I think: Making a living off your art’s about the coolest thing a
person can do. These days I’m totally at ease with the idea of artists making
good street art and merchandising it or whatever and making a living off of it.
If art is a mirror to ourselves, our society, and the artists who market
themselves successfully are the ones who survive and are the most influential,
then that seems like a pretty honest reflection of our times—of what we value.



> The idea of seeing a bunch of gidgets and gadgets with my images on them makes
> me want to throw up and die.



Let’s face it: The history of art, the canon of great artists, isn’t about the
very best artists, it’s about the ones who were best at surviving. For better or
worse, it’s the ones who make the great work AND who get it out there AND who
can survive success AND can still make original work…etc., these are the artists
that make it into the popular consciousness. The incredible and lovely thing
about the internet revolution is that it makes networking so much easier, so
much more about the quality of the work than the quality of your connections.

M. De Feo: I haven’t made a living off my street art either, even with the
wonderful street projects I’ve been blessed with. It doesn’t make a scratch in
the money I’ve spent producing them. I never started doing street art to make
money, so I couldn’t care less about this imbalance. All things come and go as
fads in the eyes of the image-hungry public, and if I have to change my
direction as an artist to follow a fad, I’ve failed as an artist. I do what I
want to do and if the public likes it, that’s a bonus. Some people confuse
selling work with “selling out.” We all have choices and we all interpret them
differently. As an artist I have a responsibility to be true to myself and to my
work. I support my family and myself by working as a high school art teacher,
and I’m lucky to do so. Sharing my passion for the arts with kids is challenging
and rewarding. As with my art, I have to keep reinventing myself to look, to
find and to share.



M. De Feo



Swoon: Ah, art that’s on the coffee mug. I am of two minds about all of this, at
least two. On the one hand, the idea of seeing a bunch of gidgets and gadgets
with my images on them makes me want to throw up and die. It’s not just the
kitschy reduction of something that I never intended to be on a coffee mug. It’s
that when I see these kinds of things my mind does all of these flips thinking
about a culture that sees fit to pour all planetary resources into the endless
production of shit that we don’t need, shit that probably exploited a labor
force and an economy to be created for this brief stop over on the way to the
garbage. This kind of marketing has the stink of rampant consumer culture to me,
and I don’t like it.

On the other hand, a couple of years back some close friends of mine were making
an album and putting it out themselves, and I offered to make the first 300
album covers by hand. I did this because I loved the way that they were trying
to make the punk, do-it-yourself ethic come alive in another musical genre, and
I thought that it would be nice if people got a chance to buy a handmade piece
of artwork for $8 and it also happened to have a record inside it. There is a
tendency in a lot of the art world (I know this because I have the tendency
myself) to only make things that are big and precious and expensive. Sometimes I
want to see art climb down from its high horse and make itself a part of the
small things that ordinary people can have and live with. T-shirts and throw
pillows and tchotchkes become a part of people’s everyday lives. While I
generally resist letting my work get reprinted in such forms, I sometimes envy
the populist versatility that these objects embody. As for making a living, it’s
been rough forgoing the commercial route, but there have been a few people who
have stepped up and really tried hard to support me because they feel a sense of
connection to the work I make on the street. This support has been invaluable.



Swoon



Patrick of Faile: I don’t think it diminishes our work any if we apply it to
products that we enjoy, whether it is a coffee cup or a shoe. At least with art
on a coffee cup the viewer can enjoy the art and use it for something more
useful than something to hang on a wall. Faile’s background is in design, and
there are projects that come our way to which we find it challenging or exciting
to apply our images. We are not just about the fine art end of things; we also
enjoy the challenges that come with solving design issues.

Another thing that we enjoy is being able to wear our own gear. It is very
satisfying to be able to wear a bag or shoes that you have designed. I would
rather rock our brand than someone else’s brand that I know nothing about. It is
nice to know what is behind the products we use, and through our collaborations
we get an inside look of what is behind the products we work on. We always take
into consideration who we are collaborating with and which product we want to
work on. We don’t take on every project that comes our way. We are very
selective about the products and the brands we choose to work with. It is
important for artists to make up their own minds regarding putting their art on
products and choosing the companies they want to work with. Depending how you
work it out, it can be very beneficial in terms of challenging yourself and
getting your work out to a wider audience. It is also great to have products you
designed and to be able to give them to your friends. In the end, the artists
need to take into consideration what they want to identify their art with. It’s
a personal choice to be made by the artist with no right or wrong answer.

Lastly, where do you think street art is heading? Not that I expect anyone to
have a crystal ball, but how might you imagine your own work in 10 years or
more?

M. De Feo: Hopefully street art will topple the structures of image consumption,
and public space and its unfortunate parallel with advertising, or at least
continue to make people smile. For me, it’s only a small piece of a much larger
way to express myself. Perhaps to get people reawakened we need to find new
terrain, new ways to interrupt things. I like how Vik Muniz once used skywriters
to draw clouds and how Andy Goldsworthy plays around with nature (especially his
mid-summer snowballs in London). As for my own work in 10 years? Hopefully
that’s going to continually evolve, mature, and challenge me, and, most of all,
be tons of fun.

Wooster Collective: We try not to get too caught up with trying to figure out
where the street-art scene is heading. We enjoy what we do each and day and
that’s enough for us. There’s always new offshoots and new artists and that’s
what makes it all very exciting. You really don’t know what to expect next. It’s
all about discovery, so I guess we’ll just have to wait and see and discover it
alongside everyone else.

Dan Witz: If you’d asked me 10 years ago if I thought I’d still be doing street
art, I would have answered, “Probably not.” For most of the artists I started
out with—Basquiat, Haring, et al—street art was a rebellious phase they went
through on their way to other things, which, honestly, was how I assumed I’d
progress. I mean, it’s a pretty standard career transition. It’s not just that
graffiti and street art are traditionally a younger person’s game, but also it’s
hard work. It’s dangerous, and one needs to maintain a kind of precarious punk
optimism to keep going back out there year after year. If it’s not the cops or
other bad guys chasing you, there’s the dirt and squalor. If the low to no
compensation doesn’t bother you, then there’s always the sad reality that your
work is so damned vulnerable—that it’s so instantly perishable.

But I keep going back out there for a lot of reasons, but mostly because I love
it (especially the squalor). The point, though, is that 10 years ago I would
have been wrong about assuming that I’d have quit. So I’m not even going to try
and answer about 10 years from now.

Swoon: I am with Dan. I was just going to do one little poster series and that
was going to be it. Already, this fixation with street art has led me down
various avenues—from experiments with pirate radio to exploring subway tunnels
to throwing street parties—all of which are connected in my mind by this
invisible thread that I began to pull the day I decided to make something so
immaterial as to physically become part of the collage of a city wall. This
initial action led me to think about participating visually and socially in the
creation of the city in ways I never would have had the chutzpah to imagine
before, and so I think there must be other people out there having this same
experience.



Swoon



The question that interests me most is not necessarily how the practice of
making art on the street will grow and change, because we know it will, in its
own cyclical way, but I am curious to find out how the experience of seeing that
you can shape the environment you live in with your own two hands will affect
the psychology of the city. The process begins with the people who make it, but
it doesn’t end there at all. Street art is one of the strongest currents I see
acting against the passive spectator culture that suffocates the imagination.
Maybe our thought-marked walls are dirty and disorganized in contrast to the
pleasingly predictable red and yellow of a McDonald’s façade, but the latter can
feel terribly alienating to me, while the other feels like home. I want to see
how we can expand upon the lessons we learn from taking to the streets to in
order to make them the kind of streets we want to see. As for my work in 10
years, I hope to be making things I do not yet even have the ability to imagine
right now.

Patrick of Faile: I think Dan and Swoon hit the nail on the head on this one. I
don’t know where street art will go, but I am sure that it will run its course
and that people will continue to do it out of love and inspire new people to get
involved. Of course, there will be those who’ll move on to other things. For us,
street art is done for love of the game, so to say. Once you have it in your
blood, it is hard to stop, because your eye learns to see things on the street
that urge you to create. It’s hard to stop that urge.

However, being arrested and chased down like a criminal does tend to wear one
down a bit. As Dan had mentioned, this has not made us stop. There is just too
much to love about working on the streets to let it go all together. I think we
will always have the urge to add a little love here and there. I have no clue
what will happen to street art down the road, and that it something that I don’t
worry about to much. Street art has room to grow and over time. I am sure it
will be absorbed into mainstream culture far beyond what it is today, like
everything usually is over time. I hope in 10 years Faile will still be making
art, designing things, and coming up with crazy unexpected ideas. As long as we
can do what we love and can make a living from it, it’s all good in the ’hood.
Much love, all.

 * art
 * newyorknewyork
 * profiles
 * roundtable

TMN Contributing Writer Pitchaya Sudbanthad lives and writes in New York City.
Aside from being an all-purpose rabble-rouser and raconteur, he is the founding
editor of the Konundrum Engine Literary Review. Visit him at his website. More
by Pitchaya Sudbanthad

 * 

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 * WHERE THE STREETS HAVE ONE NAME
   
   by Karolle Rabarison
   
   
   What is the best way to honor a man like Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.?
   Photographs from a cross-country trip to document streets named after the
   American icon.

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