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CHIPS ACT IS DEAD - JUST LOOK AT OUR ACTUAL PRIORITIES
* Thread starter mozartct
* Start date Saturday at 6:35 AM
M
MOZARTCT
MEMBER
* Saturday at 6:35 AM
*
* #1
Call off the dogs. The CHIPS act is dead. It will not pass in one form or
another this year. I am not sure that it's good or bad as there's been many
iterations. What I do know is that as a country, we are laser focused... on
other things. Consider that in the last 20 years:
1- We decided that unlimited and unregulated funding of our political process
was a good thing.
2- We decided that companies have their own faith
3- We have not modernized public transportation in any way (airports, trains,
etc.)
4- We decided not to lower our energy consumption
5- We decided that offshore wind (where it is windy i.e. Jersey and MA) would
not happen (via litigation). In fact, we have decided that climate change is not
real.
6- We decided that we will put women and doctors in jail (see yesterday)
6- We decided that carrying guns in bars and churches and everywhere else is a
good idea.
7- Pricing reform of healthcare, scientific literacy, eliminate the penny, your
favorite no-brainer here - we have done NOTHING and will do NOTHING.
etc.
The facts speak for themselves. As central as semiconductor is to everything, we
are spending our money, our time and political energy elsewhere. Do you think
for a NY minute that our performative congressmen and women give a hoot about
CHIPS or technology in general? Do they even know what technology is? We
rage-tweet while TSMC is working on 2 nm GAA.
B
BLUEONE
MEMBER
* Saturday at 7:04 AM
*
* #2
> mozartct said:
> Call off the dogs. The CHIPS act is dead. It will not pass in one form or
> another this year. I am not sure that it's good or bad as there's been many
> iterations. What I do know is that as a country, we are laser focused... on
> other things. Consider that in the last 20 years:
>
> 1- We decided that unlimited and unregulated funding of our political process
> was a good thing.
> Click to expand...
That pesky 1st Amendment, and off-topic.
> mozartct said:
> 2- We decided that companies have their own faith
> Click to expand...
I have no idea what this means.
> mozartct said:
> 3- We have not modernized public transportation in any way (airports, trains,
> etc.)
> Click to expand...
Incorrect. I fly regularly, and every airport I take off from or land in seems
to be under construction. Even that abomination of an airport, Laguardia, has
been massively reconstructed.
> mozartct said:
> 4- We decided not to lower our energy consumption
> Click to expand...
Incorrect again. There are government regulations for improved energy
consumption efficiency for just about everything. For example:
STANDARDS AND TEST PROCEDURES
The Department of Energy (DOE) establishes energy efficiency standards for
certain appliances and equipment, and currently covers more than 60 diff...
www.energy.gov
Vehicle fuel economy standards have been increased:
USDOT ANNOUNCES NEW VEHICLE FUEL ECONOMY STANDARDS FOR MODEL YEAR 2024-2026 |
NHTSA
www.nhtsa.gov
> 5. We decided that offshore wind (where it is windy i.e. Jersey and MA) would
> not happen (via litigation). In fact, we have decided that climate change is
> not real
> Click to expand...
The US subsidizes wind and solar power massively.
> 6- We decided that we will put women and doctors in jail (see yesterday)
> Click to expand...
Off-topic.
> mozartct said:
> 6- We decided that carrying guns in bars and churches and everywhere else is a
> good idea.
> Click to expand...
Off-topic.
> mozartct said:
> 7- Pricing reform of healthcare, scientific literacy, eliminate the penny,
> your favorite no-brainer here - we have done NOTHING and will do NOTHING.
> Click to expand...
Now you're being weird. Eliminating the penny?
> mozartct said:
> etc.
>
> The facts speak for themselves. As central as semiconductor is to everything,
> we are spending our money, our time and political energy elsewhere. Do you
> think for a NY minute that our performative congressmen and women give a hoot
> about CHIPS or technology in general? Do they even know what technology is? We
> rage-tweet while TSMC is working on 2 nm GAA.
> Click to expand...
You haven't listed any facts. Intel is working on GAA too. I think Congress does
care about chip technology, but they really don't understand it, and they don't
want to compromise other agendas to smooth the path to getting fabs built in the
US.
Last edited: Saturday at 7:11 AM
DANIEL NENNI
ADMIN
Staff member
* Saturday at 7:44 AM
*
* #3
CHIPS for America DOA?
Yes it is....... just my opinion, not a fact.
M
MOZARTCT
MEMBER
* Saturday at 8:36 AM
*
* #4
@blueone
What I am trying to say (perhaps too subtle way) is that we have made the
changes that we wanted to make (in fact that a minority wanted to make). You can
claim that all these issues (Citizen United, Roe, etc.) are not relevant but
they are. Polarization (well funded by the people who benefit from the status
quo - See Koch et al, Wall Street) has crippled us and the CHIPS act is its
latest victim.
It's not Congress that does not care about tech, it's all of us. We much rather
organize parades, prayer days, picket abortion clinics, burn down buildings (see
PDX), than sit down constructively and decide where we want to go. At the
moment, a minority (which changes issue by issue) is calling the shots. In this
environment, it does not matter than a so-called majority is in favor of the
CHIPS act. A minority can and will block it.
As to the penny, we lose money on everyone we make. Nearly all countries have
eliminated that denomination including our neighbors to the north. It would seem
a no-brainer to just stop making pennies. Yet here we are. If that's difficult,
then imagine CHIPS or overall of science curriculum in HS.
At any rate, DOA it is and the fabs in OH may well be out the window or slowed
down dramatically.
B
BLUEONE
MEMBER
* Saturday at 9:25 AM
*
* #5
> mozartct said:
> @blueone
>
> What I am trying to say (perhaps too subtle way) is that we have made the
> changes that we wanted to make (in fact that a minority wanted to make). You
> can claim that all these issues (Citizen United, Roe, etc.) are not relevant
> but they are. Polarization (well funded by the people who benefit from the
> status quo - See Koch et al, Wall Street) has crippled us and the CHIPS act is
> its latest victim.
>
> It's not Congress that does not care about tech, it's all of us. We much
> rather organize parades, prayer days, picket abortion clinics, burn down
> buildings (see PDX), than sit down constructively and decide where we want to
> go. At the moment, a minority (which changes issue by issue) is calling the
> shots. In this environment, it does not matter than a so-called majority is in
> favor of the CHIPS act. A minority can and will block it.
>
> As to the penny, we lose money on everyone we make. Nearly all countries have
> eliminated that denomination including our neighbors to the north. It would
> seem a no-brainer to just stop making pennies. Yet here we are. If that's
> difficult, then imagine CHIPS or overall of science curriculum in HS.
>
> At any rate, DOA it is and the fabs in OH may well be out the window or slowed
> down dramatically.
> Click to expand...
I don't agree. Did you read the article referenced in another post:
THE HOUSE AND SENATE ARE FAR APART ON THEIR BILLS TO ADDRESS COMPUTER CHIP
SHORTAGE
Both bodies have passed legislation on the matter, and the effort is one of
their last opportunities before the November elections to show voters they are
addressing strained supply chains.
www.npr.org
Both the House and Senate bills are terrible and full of partisan useless
nonsense. $8B in the House bill for developing countries to adjust to climate
change? Seriously? On a global scale that's a useless drop in the bucket, and
what it is doing in the CHIPS bill? Both bills increase centralized technology
planning and research. The House bill has a nearly undirected $45B pot of money
to "improve supply chains". The Senate bill reinstates useless tariffs. Both
chambers have a lot to be ashamed of, and I don't think I'd like either one to
become law.
From the tone of your posts and issues you mention, you appear to sympathize
with the progressive agenda, your comments have more than a hint of conspiracy
theory. The CHIPS bills are failing because no one I can see in Congress has
anything but partisan agendas in mind, and the President is not providing any
thought leadership. If we really wanted to make the US a chip manufacturing
power again the President would drive the agenda. He's not.
M
MOZARTCT
MEMBER
* Saturday at 9:38 AM
*
* #6
Where one falls on the political spectrum has very little to do with the facts
at hand. Statis is where we are, whether we like it or not. I have no agenda but
like my peers, I see that my competitors in South Korea and Taiwan (and arguably
China) are leaping ahead, by virtue of sustained investments within a favorable
governmental framework. What is the net: I spend most of my time in Asia as it
is more cost effective, even though it is far away.
I would love to see more manufacturing done here but despite the tsmc and intel
new builds + TI Sherman and Samsung Taylor, the real stuff is happening
elsewhere. See Nanya ground breaking this week and Micron's increased
investments in Taichung complex.
Blame Biden, blame Trump, blame whoever you want. It's not one person, it is
societal.
C
COLDSOLDER215
MEMBER
* Saturday at 1:36 PM
*
* #7
At this point it's a luxury to talk about "competing" with "Asia", not because
we can't but because by now most Americans are concerned exclusively with their
domestic enemies. All of the best engineers, scientists, philosophers, and
artists, people who paved the way for modernity, came out of Germany riiiiight
before the Nazis seized power and drove them away with crackpot racist
mythologies as to why the country was miserable. And thank god for that because
it won the war for the allies. It sucks to be around for the downfall of an
empire because that's when human depravity really starts to show and most
genocides occur, but here we are.
For consolation, abortion has been practically impossible for over half the
populace for a while now due to our post-industrial economy, obscene healthcare
system, and cravenly opportunistic politicians. The gang of Catholics we call
the Supreme Court are simply crossing the i's and dotting the t's. We'll see if
it's overreach, perhaps Marbury v. Madison gets torched as part of a coup d'etat
led by some low-level Army officers. Those guys wanna "compete" with "Asia", but
they'll have to so reign in these senile old fogies to make it happen.
T
TOOLONGINEDA
ACTIVE MEMBER
* Yesterday at 11:31 AM
*
* #8
> coldsolder215 said:
> At this point it's a luxury to talk about "competing" with "Asia", not because
> we can't but because by now most Americans are concerned exclusively with
> their domestic enemies. All of the best engineers, scientists, philosophers,
> and artists, people who paved the way for modernity, came out of Germany
> riiiiight before the Nazis seized power and drove them away with crackpot
> racist mythologies as to why the country was miserable. And thank god for that
> because it won the war for the allies. It sucks to be around for the downfall
> of an empire because that's when human depravity really starts to show and
> most genocides occur, but here we are.
>
> For consolation, abortion has been practically impossible for over half the
> populace for a while now due to our post-industrial economy, obscene
> healthcare system, and cravenly opportunistic politicians. The gang of
> Catholics we call the Supreme Court are simply crossing the i's and dotting
> the t's. We'll see if it's overreach, perhaps Marbury v. Madison gets torched
> as part of a coup d'etat led by some low-level Army officers. Those guys wanna
> "compete" with "Asia", but they'll have to so reign in these senile old fogies
> to make it happen.
> Click to expand...
Not an American, but I suspect this "all our best engineers came out of Germany"
line really is not true. Quite a few were Hungarians (von Neumann ...) and
plenty were American born (Shannon ...).
Stop beating yourselves up guys ! It's not that bad in the US (there's always
crazy stuff going on, even in "normal" times in the US). People wouldn't be
queueing up to get in if it were.
*
Reactions: Barnsley and blueone
B
BLUEONE
MEMBER
* Yesterday at 12:27 PM
*
* #9
> tooLongInEDA said:
> Not an American, but I suspect this "all our best engineers came out of
> Germany" line really is not true. Quite a few were Hungarians (von Neumann
> ...) and plenty were American born (Shannon ...).
> Click to expand...
It isn't true, but the foundation for this point of view comes out of the early
US space program and Operation Paperclip. The US is a country that has benefited
from significant immigration, so many technical leaders are immigrants, and IMO
that's a good thing.
> tooLongInEDA said:
> Stop beating yourselves up guys ! It's not that bad in the US (there's always
> crazy stuff going on, even in "normal" times in the US). People wouldn't be
> queueing up to get in if it were.
> Click to expand...
As a US citizen (and born here) I like it when we're feeling inadequate and
behind the curve. That's often when we do our best work. Remember the paranoia
around the Japanese creation of their 5th Generation Computer Systems initiative
created by the Japanese government under MITI in the 1980s? US companies formed
a consortium called Microelectronics and Computer Technology Company, and
SEMATECH as responses to the paranoia. Or the big stink about how Japan had
pulled ahead in the development of analog HDTV, was going to steal the entire
American television industry? Innovation is often born out of fear and paranoia.
Complacency often happens when one is fat, dumb, and happy. I say let the
paranoia get worse. It's probably justified in the case of semiconductors.
*
Reactions: tooLongInEDA
T
TOOLONGINEDA
ACTIVE MEMBER
* Yesterday at 1:57 PM
*
* #10
> blueone said:
> It isn't true, but the foundation for this point of view comes out of the
> early US space program and Operation Paperclip. The US is a country that has
> benefited from significant immigration, so many technical leaders are
> immigrants, and IMO that's a good thing.
>
> As a US citizen (and born here) I like it when we're feeling inadequate and
> behind the curve. That's often when we do our best work. Remember the paranoia
> around the Japanese creation of their 5th Generation Computer Systems
> initiative created by the Japanese government under MITI in the 1980s? US
> companies formed a consortium called Microelectronics and Computer Technology
> Company, and SEMATECH as responses to the paranoia. Or the big stink about how
> Japan had pulled ahead in the development of analog HDTV, was going to steal
> the entire American television industry? Innovation is often born out of fear
> and paranoia. Complacency often happens when one is fat, dumb, and happy. I
> say let the paranoia get worse. It's probably justified in the case of
> semiconductors.
> Click to expand...
Absolutely. A lot of people are writing the USA off these days (an error I've
made in the past). My view is that you're currently at peak pessimism: the only
way is up. The US is far more likely to relaunch itself from a period of fat,
lazy complacency (which has gone on for rather too long) than Europe.
You'll survive with or without the CHIPS Act.
*
Reactions: blueone
HIST78
WELL-KNOWN MEMBER
* Yesterday at 7:18 PM
*
* #11
> blueone said:
> I don't agree. Did you read the article referenced in another post:
>
>
>
>
> THE HOUSE AND SENATE ARE FAR APART ON THEIR BILLS TO ADDRESS COMPUTER CHIP
> SHORTAGE
>
> Both bodies have passed legislation on the matter, and the effort is one of
> their last opportunities before the November elections to show voters they are
> addressing strained supply chains.
> www.npr.org
>
> Both the House and Senate bills are terrible and full of partisan useless
> nonsense. $8B in the House bill for developing countries to adjust to climate
> change? Seriously? On a global scale that's a useless drop in the bucket, and
> what it is doing in the CHIPS bill? Both bills increase centralized technology
> planning and research. The House bill has a nearly undirected $45B pot of
> money to "improve supply chains". The Senate bill reinstates useless tariffs.
> Both chambers have a lot to be ashamed of, and I don't think I'd like either
> one to become law.
>
> From the tone of your posts and issues you mention, you appear to sympathize
> with the progressive agenda, your comments have more than a hint of conspiracy
> theory. The CHIPS bills are failing because no one I can see in Congress has
> anything but partisan agendas in mind, and the President is not providing any
> thought leadership. If we really wanted to make the US a chip manufacturing
> power again the President would drive the agenda. He's not.
> Click to expand...
Talking about the climate change related funding in the Chips Act. If we start
looking into the US Federal budget for various agencies, this type of earmarks
and amendments have been going on for many years. I'm not commenting on it's
right or wrong, but It's been a typical exercise done by both parties and many
members (if not majority of them) of the Congress and Senate.
Those same Congressmen and Senators who opposed the Chips Act will not regret
the earmarks and amendments they have done before that inflated the federal
budgets. They will not hesitate to do it many times again in the future on other
federal budgets for whatever good or not so good reasons.
The Chips Act happened to be one they feel they can oppose and score political
gains without too much negative consequences.
The Chips Act hasn't died yet. Many times before the reconciliation between
Senate and Congress eventually brought comprised agreements.
B
BARNSLEY
MEMBER
* Today at 12:38 AM
*
* #12
> blueone said:
> It isn't true, but the foundation for this point of view comes out of the
> early US space program and Operation Paperclip. The US is a country that has
> benefited from significant immigration, so many technical leaders are
> immigrants, and IMO that's a good thing.
>
> As a US citizen (and born here) I like it when we're feeling inadequate and
> behind the curve. That's often when we do our best work. Remember the paranoia
> around the Japanese creation of their 5th Generation Computer Systems
> initiative created by the Japanese government under MITI in the 1980s? US
> companies formed a consortium called Microelectronics and Computer Technology
> Company, and SEMATECH as responses to the paranoia. Or the big stink about how
> Japan had pulled ahead in the development of analog HDTV, was going to steal
> the entire American television industry? Innovation is often born out of fear
> and paranoia. Complacency often happens when one is fat, dumb, and happy. I
> say let the paranoia get worse. It's probably justified in the case of
> semiconductors.
> Click to expand...
Chaos is the mother of invention.
I live in the land of stability , and they havent had an original thought here
for 30yrs.
Govt spends all its money paying companies to come here
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