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Pay Equity and Culture
In this episode we explore the role pay equity plays in defining an
organization’s culture
CEO/CFO, Human Resources, Pay Equity,
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1. Home
2. Podcasts
3. Get Pay Right
4. Episode 4
GET PAY RIGHT™ - EP 4:
PAY EQUITY AND CULTURE
Welcome to the Get Pay Right Podcast! In this episode, host Kevin Plunkett
welcomes Trish McFarlane of H3HR and Garry Straker of Salary.com to explore the
role pay equity plays in defining an organization’s culture. The trio also
discuss how a strategic approach to compensation, backed by data and analysis,
can help create much-needed alignment between pay equity and culture.
April 8, 2022
Time Stamps
Contact Info
Resources
Full Transcript
* [03:20 -05:55] Introduction
* Welcome Trish McFarlane and Garry Straker to the Get Pay Right podcast
* Today’s Topic: Pay Equity and Culture
[07:00 -30:57] Reduces Churn
* Employees are turning a critical eye to their jobs, examining how they
measure up to their work and life goals, and to a fair pay standard, like
at no other period in recent history
* A small increase in turnover can cost a company millions of dollars in
hiring and training resources
[31:21 -34:44] Strategic Advantages in the War for Talent
* HR pros know how important pay equity is: 96% said it’s a competitive
advantage in the war for talent
* For many companies, the strategy of higher salaries for new hires is not
sustainable long-term
[13:42 -34:56] Build Employee Trust and Loyalty
* Pay equity and transparency are one way, among many, to strengthen your
value proposition for current and prospective employees
* Leadership support is paramount to success, yet a third of HR pros said
getting leadership to support pay transparency was their biggest obstacle
to pay equity
[35:25 -39:05] Final Thoughts and Closing
* Stay current with what’s going on in the industry, what’s going on with pay
equity, and then come back with a report for your organization
* Thanks for listening!
Connect with Trish McFarlane:
*
Connect with Gary Straker:
*
Connect with Kevin Plankett:
*
Related Resources:
* Understanding the Gender Pay Gap
* Episode 5 – Compensation Beyond Cash
* Episode 3 – The Gender Pay Gap
* Why Job Description Matters for Pay Equity
* Pay Equity Pulse Survey Report: Employer Perspective
* Pay Equity Pulse Survey: Employee Perspective
Trish McFarlane 00:09
What is pay equity? It is dynamic. It's not like you just have the conversation
once it's continually checking in with the people on your team. You know, what,
what does equity look like for you?
Garry Straker 00:21
And I don't know that there's any organization out there that would declare that
they have perfect equity within their workforce.
Trish McFarlane 00:28
But it could be that your company actually is paying fairly. And maybe you're
just not communicating that.
Kevin Plunkett 00:35
Can it negatively impact your company culture?
Garry Straker 00:38
I think though, the worst thing you can do is be vague, and not clear. Because
employees will, you know, interpret that differently.
Trish McFarlane 00:47
potential employees are very savvy when it comes to the way that you're handling
yourself. And whether or not you're proactive or reactive, fixing it is not
easy. Don't just go after the low hanging fruit. It's not about just giving, you
know, the group that's the loudest, an extra dollar an hour, that's not going to
solve your problems,
Garry Straker 01:05
you need to be sure that those pay disparities, hopefully are not, you know,
illegal pay practices.
Kevin Plunkett 01:12
And those conversations are never easy,
Trish McFarlane 01:15
I think is, is going to make it more comfortable for everyone to have the
conversations which are definitely going to be very uncomfortable.
Kevin Plunkett 01:23
It's clear, a peanut butter approach is not the answer,
Trish McFarlane 01:27
just as you wouldn't parent to children the same way because it doesn't work.
Right, the same parenting approach doesn't work. You know, you want to make sure
it's equitable. But it doesn't have to be the same.
Kevin Plunkett 01:39
This is not a problem you could ignore.
Garry Straker 01:40
But I think the scrutiny and focus around pay disparities is going to reach a
level that we haven't seen. I think in recent years, even despite all the
relatively new pay equity legislation.
Kevin Plunkett 01:46
It will not be solved quickly.
Trish McFarlane 01:56
When you're talking about pay equity. And to Gary's point about it's not
something you can do overnight. It is a journey. It's not trying to fix
everything at once it's really trying to find where the biggest pain points are.
Kevin Plunkett 02:09
The journey will not be easy
Garry Straker 02:11
It's important to sort of recognize that we have to navigate that bump in the
road. Hopefully, we're not without letting it derail us, right without creating,
you know, just a train wreck that we can never recover from.
Trish McFarlane 02:22
But it's really just about making sure each individual understands where they
are relative to the market, and why you're paying them the way you're paying
them.
Garry Straker 02:32
I like to think of it in terms of establishing a tolerable threshold for what is
appropriate and permissible within your organization based on your culture and
values.
Kevin Plunkett 02:45
Perfection, we know is unattainable. But there has to be a more realistic goal
Garry Straker 02:50
and perfect equity, you know, maybe a again, a noble aspiration, but it may be
something that is not achievable, at least right now.
Kevin Plunkett 03:00
Easier said than done. Pay Equity, a noble aspiration, or an achievable reality.
We'll explore it right here on the get pay right podcast. From the salary.com
studio in Waltham, Massachusetts, this is get pay, right? The podcast that dives
deep into the current compensation topics that matter to you most, so you can
get it right every time. Welcome to the Get Pay Right podcast. I'm your host,
Kevin Plunkett and I'm looking forward to today's discussion, which will set her
on pay equities pivotal role in organizational culture, diversity and inclusion.
We recently surveyed over 500 employees. And when we asked them, what they cared
about what considering an employer compensation was number one, with
organizational culture coming in a close second. These results make it clear
that compensation and organizational culture are intertwined and play a major
role in employee attraction and engagement. At Salary.com we believe every
employee should have a clear understanding of how their pay is determined. And
with that knowledge, an organization can build trust with their employees, which
of course plays a key role in both employee retention and recruitment. And what
our survey results and conversations with customers have told us is that the
understanding of how pay is determined is just not happening on a broad scale.
Only a third of companies have a pay philosophy that supports transparency. And
only a third of companies say their managers can accurately answer an employee
who asks, how's my pay determined? Also of concern, we asked employees, do you
feel that the pay practices at your organization support efforts to improve
diversity, equity and inclusion? And 67% said, no, they have no idea. So how can
organizations make progress towards pay equity and in the process, a culture of
trust. I'm happy to welcome two guests who can help us understand the role that
pay equity and pay transparency play in a healthy organizational culture. Trish
McFarlane and Garry Straker, both of you please give us just a snippet of your
extensive backgrounds.
Trish McFarlane 05:55
Thank you so much. I am excited to be here with you, Kevin and with Garry. My
name is Trish McFarlane I am a former HR professionals spent about two decades
of my life doing that moved into HR technology, and but have really been focused
on pay pay equity compensation throughout my entire career. So I'm excited to
come on and share some of the insights I've gained over the years. And also to
learn something new from both you and Gary.
Kevin Plunkett 06:24
I'm sure we'll learn more from you, then you from Garry,
Garry Straker 06:29
well, I'm happy to be here too little bit like Trish. I've been at this for over
two decades, my focus is really in helping elevate the employee experience by
building rewards programs that are sustainable, internally equitable, and market
competitive. And all the years that I've been doing this, I've never seen a time
like, like we're in today. And so it's such a dynamic evolving labor market,
it's just been a lot of fun and exciting to be able to do this work and help
organizations you know, get paid, right? So really happy to be here.
Kevin Plunkett 07:00
There's a lot to uncover here. Culture is a word that carries a slightly
different definition for different people. And pay equity is a bit of a newcomer
to the cultural conversation. While it's always been a factor, recent societal
and legislative changes, along with employee demands, have brought the element
of pay equity to the forefront. So let me ask you both, how is pay equity,
helping to define what culture means for an organization?
Trish McFarlane 07:32
Well, I can tackle that first if you'd like. I think for me, when I think of
culture, it's really about the values that the organization demonstrates and the
behaviors over time. And with pay equity, it goes back a little bit to different
generations where maybe you were raised up in your organization where it was not
okay to talk about pay, maybe you were even taught or told it was not okay to
talk about pay, it's something you keep private. And what that's done over the
decades has built this sort of wall around transparency and the way that people
will feel comfortable that they're being paid fairly. As you started the show, I
know you mentioned that in the survey, respondents were saying that, you know,
the organizational values were not communicated around pay and pay equity. And
what I've found in my career is that can be true. But it could be that your
company actually is paying fairly, and maybe you're just not communicating that.
So for me, the way that the to culture and pay equity go hand in hand is really
a little bit more around communication and real examination than anything else.
Garry Straker 08:43
Yeah, Trish, I certainly would concur. And I think what's different about the
environment we're in today is that expectations have changed, certainly amongst
employees in terms of looking at the types of organizations they want to work
with. They want to be sure that organizations demonstrate the same kind of
values that are important to them. And it's not just what they say it's what
they do. And so making sure that pay practices are consistent with what's being
communicated in the values, but also, in the current environment. There has
never been more scrutiny. And we're expecting to see in the coming months here,
new human capital disclosure requirements being issued by the SEC. And of
course, this has been a topic that's been going on for a few years now. But so
many organizations are focused on environmental, social and governance issues
nowadays, and it's important for investors, certainly, but it's also important
for employees. Yeah, that's a good point, Garry.
Kevin Plunkett 09:38
I mean, I think the clarity comes from both the top down and the bottom up. But
I think employees have their set of expectations around pay transparency, and
leadership has their own set of expectations, which can create conflict, and in
some cases, generational differences around patrons piracy can also create
conflict. So I don't I don't know. But you Trish, but I was raised in a
generation where you didn't talk about pay was a taboo subject. But the younger
generations today, they don't seem to have the same concerns. So how do these
generational differences impact the definition of pay equity and organizational
culture?
Trish McFarlane 10:21
You know, I think that you're right, there is a difference in generation and
many of us who have, you know, become leaders in our, you know, sort of handling
this far organizations, if we're taught that you don't talk about it, we know
that the, you know, upcoming generations who are now overwhelmingly going to be
taking those leadership roles are more comfortable with talking about pay, I
think what's what's best to think about when it comes to pay transparency, that
does not mean opening up the doors so that everyone knows what everyone else
makes. And that might be I'll speak for myself, that might be a fear that, you
know, someone of my age group of Gen X, or, or baby members might think that
that's what that means. What to me, what it really means when you're talking
about pay transparency, is making sure that that individual understands why
they're being paid, what they're being paid, and how that fits in the
organization, both with their value, maybe their education, maybe their
experience, depending on how long they've been in that role, or, or in the
industry, for example. So I think that if we can start communicating with people
who have been in the organization longer, who are maybe in leadership roles,
that it's really not about kind of just uncovering everyone's pay and sort of
serving it up to the to the masses, right. But it's really just about making
sure each individual understands where they are relative to the market, and why
you're paying them the way you're paying them.
Garry Straker 11:50
Yeah, Trish. And I would follow up on that and add that that's important for not
only current employees, but potential job candidates. And you know, what we are
seeing a little bit a little bit of a trend in terms of new legislation
requiring wage range disclosures in various parts of the country. I think that
that's going to continue. But I think regardless of what legislative or
compliance activity exists in the marketplace, I think employers are recognizing
that in the current market, they need to differentiate themselves, and they need
to elevate the employee experience and meet the expectations of employees and
job candidates. And I, I think if you're not doing that, you're really at a
competitive disadvantage, because I just don't know that a lot of organizations
are going to be able to sustain the level of pay increases that we've been
seeing recently in the market.
Trish McFarlane 12:42
Well, and Garry, I think to when you say that, it's important for people to not
wait for legislation to dictate how you run your business, right? It's, it's
being proactive, sort of like you're suggesting, it's making sure that you're
doing those, I'll do air quotes with those right things, by your candidates, and
by your employees. I think too, it's okay, if you don't have money to just throw
at every new hire, that walks in the door in such a tight labor market, being
able to have those conversations and say, here are all the other benefits and
the ways that your career will be differentiated with our company, pay being one
of them, and show them over time. Maybe, you know, the first three years might
look like this, the first five years might look like that, I can help you have
those conversations and not wait for sort of the slap on the wrist from
legislation that comes down sort of forcing you to do something because
potential employees are very savvy when it comes to the way that you're handling
yourself. And whether or not you're proactive or reactive.
Kevin Plunkett 13:42
You both make great points. I mean, you have to meet the market where it is. And
we've all seen, we're in an incredibly dynamic market right now. And there's a
tendency to have a knee jerk reaction of putting a bandaid on to solve for this
trend, and hope it goes away. But I think we all know, this is not a trend. And
the expectation for achieving pay equity and trust is here to stay in companies.
They just need to figure out a way to achieve it. And this is what I mean when I
say it's coming from the bottom up, recruiters tasked with building an employee
base are finding how important pay equity and culture is to potential employees.
I mean, these recruiters will feel it more acutely than the folks in leadership.
And that may lead to them defining pay equity differently than leadership.
Right? It's, it's like I tell my kids when we're having company, I need you to
clean your rooms. Well, their definition of clean is very different than mine.
Much like in an organization, what pay equity means to be personally may be
different than what it means to someone we just hired. So how can HR begin to
understand these different definitions and expectations of pay equity and
ultimately get everyone on the same page?
Trish McFarlane 14:58
You know, it starts with just question You have to ask those hard questions. And
you have to also as a leader be open that your way much like you as a parent,
Kevin, it, it is a way, but it might not be the best way, or the most current
way or the way that's going to work right now, as you mentioned in a dynamic
time of leadership. So I think having those conversations openly with any new
hires, and having those conversations with your existing employees to find out,
and it's not a one and done, right, it is dynamic. It's not like you just have
the conversation once it's continually checking in with the people on your team.
You know, what, what does equity look like for you? Because, you know, as
someone who's worked a long time, I might have a little more patience, and
understanding that my boss is going to get me where I think I need to be over a
longer period of time. And maybe someone more junior might not have that life
experience yet.
Kevin Plunkett 15:56
So or trust or trust in New York? Correct. Right.
Trish McFarlane 15:59
Right. And and I think too, it doesn't have to be the same for every employee,
right? Just as you wouldn't parent two children the same way, because it doesn't
work. Right, the same parenting approach doesn't work. You know, you want to
make sure it's equitable, but it doesn't have to be the same. So I think that's
important to just remind yourself as you're thinking about the approach, and I
think that would tear down some of the barriers that are there already.
Kevin Plunkett 16:24
I think this brings up another really good point, how are you defining pay
equity for your organization, I mean, it's going to be different for your
organization, than for your competitor down the street. And it could be even a
different definition from within different levels of your organization.
Garry Straker 16:43
Yeah. And I also think it's, it's an evolution and organizations need to be
honest with themselves about, you know, the current state in terms of where they
are, and understanding that, you know, where they would like to be in terms of
their aspirations may require a journey, and a process. And I think engaging key
stakeholders in that process. And that kind of include employees in that journey
is important as you as you sort of go down this road. And so I think it's, for
many, you know, culture is, is always changing and shifting, and it's a work in
progress for a lot of organizations. And I don't know that there's any
organization out there that would declare that they have perfect equity within
their workforce, perfect equity, you know, maybe a very noble and bold
aspiration, that could mean lots of different things, you know, to different
people, as Trish mentioned earlier, but I think more than anything else,
employees want to know that their employee has good intentions, right, and is
taking the necessary steps and actions knowing that, you know, change might not
happen overnight. And it may take a little bit of time. But at least if they're
on the same page in terms of what direction they're going in, and what the the
overall intent and aspiration of the organization is, I think employees find
comfort in that.
Kevin Plunkett 18:02
Alright, so let me summarize what you're saying. And feel free to chime in. But
what I'm hearing is, it's different for every organization. And it's different
for different levels within the organization. And you have to be dynamic and
flexible. And you have to meet the market where it is, and understand how pay
equity aligns with their goals as an organization.
Garry Straker 18:24
Yeah, I think all those things are important, Kevin, achieving pay equity,
Kevin Plunkett 18:28
and a transparent culture is a big initiative that goes well beyond checking a
compliance box. So how do you get leadership on board?
Trish McFarlane 18:35
You know, the first thing that popped into my mind is that you have to take
their blinders off. Again, sort of back to that generational difference with
pay, we've, you know, I've administered pay for many, many years with all levels
of leadership, and we really only give them access to see pay for their specific
department or group or team. And they never are shown or even talked to, in my
experience about the bigger picture of what is our pay strategy. I've only had
one employer in my life where we really talked about pay strategy on a wider
scale with our leadership team. And even then it was still a little bit, you
know, they didn't actually see the numbers for from all the other groups until
you got to that highest level. So I think the first thing is to just take the
blinders off for your your leaders start explaining what your company culture is
going to value when it comes to the way you pay your employees and your you
know, your new hires.
Kevin Plunkett 19:32
That Trish, I like what you said there. So how do you go about taking those
blinders off? I mean, how do you demonstrate to leadership that you got a
problem?
Trish McFarlane 19:42
Well, for me, I think that's where you really need to as as the HR leader, or
maybe in combination with your CFO, you really need to take a more proactive
approach to thinking about the strategic side of the way you pay people. I know
a lot of HR professionals that We're trained that way I happen to be trained
that way. But there are a lot who are not trained that way and are sort of
thrown into, here's your pool of money. Now do with it what, what you will. So I
think the first step is, is actually having some education around the way that
you're paying people using research, for example, I mean, you know, what the,
you know, at the top of the show, you mentioned, you have new research out, it's
going to those resources and taking those back to that senior leadership level,
to talk about, pay with them, making sure they understand some of the benefits
of having transparency and having discussions. Because for me, I know that a lot
of what we're talking about comes from the bottom up, the demand, of course,
comes from the bottom up. But the overarching strategy around why we're going to
pay people in a certain means, to me comes a little bit from the top down, and
without that initial education, it cannot come. So it just becomes very
reactionary. It's like, oh, we're going to make this hire for this hard to fill
role. We're gonna throw a ton of money at this person, without much thought to
what that's going to do to the other positions down the road. So yeah, just
being much more thoughtful. At the outset, I would say is the first step.
Garry Straker 21:15
Yeah. And I think it needs to be supported by, you know, credible data and
analysis. And we talk so much about data analytics these days, but certainly
understanding the potential risk in framing any discussions around pay practices
and policies around, you know, mitigating risk, and looking at your current
state and trying to identify, is there any exposure there, you know, that has a
way of getting the attention of, you know, financial and organizational leaders,
but, but the the flip side of that is also being clear about, what are the
advantages, you know, what, what are the benefits of going down this path, and,
and being able to sort of put some stakes in the ground in terms of what impact
you're seeing as far as retention, you know, in terms of being able to, to
recruit and compete in the marketplace
Kevin Plunkett 22:06
on a, you know, the data point, I think, is a good one, but it's not just the
one time, right, you're, you're pulling this data, and then managing and
monitoring it moving forward to demonstrate growth and demonstrate, you know,
progress towards towards this kind of goal. And that's just now kind of an
ongoing thing versus a one time thing, correct?
Garry Straker 22:27
I think it is. And I think increasingly, even if you looked at the competitive
environment, we're going to see, and we're already seeing this, organizations
being pretty forthcoming about disclosing some of their human capital metrics,
and not uncommon to go to corporate websites today, and see their diversity
dashboard, right, their diversity, equity, inclusion, metrics and benchmarks
which they have been sharing, not only internally with their workforce, but
externally to, you know, customers and investors and other stakeholders to
demonstrate that they are moving in the right direction. And I think we're going
to see more of that.
Kevin Plunkett 23:04
So how many organizations do you think feel that approach and pay equity? It's
like opening Pandora's box. I mean, they're not used to sharing data. They're
not used to sharing period. And they believe when you share information, you
lose a competitive advantage.
Trish McFarlane 23:22
Absolutely. When you ask the question, I was thinking like, 100%. I mean, you
know, if you think about it, as an individual, right, if you were going to go
out and start dating, for example, you're not going to want to share all the
skeletons in your closet, right? From your entire life history, there's going to
be a little bit right, you're going to put your best self forward. Right, right.
No, but I think hiring is very much the same. It's, and it's not that there
aren't maybe necessarily bad skeletons, but just you know, every organization
has times of great years, bad years, you know, good things, they do bad things
they do. And so I think when you're talking about starting the employee
lifecycle and recruitment, you're, you're wanting to put your best foot forward.
And so therefore, I don't know that it's that they're wanting to be secretive.
It's just never been a necessity before. It's never, you know, you know, I'm 51
years old, I've never gone to a company when I was younger and said, Oh, tell me
all about your pay practices when I'm interviewing. Right? So I think to the
questions have changed and evolved in a good way. And it's just now that
organizations need to feel like this is actually a really interesting time
because instead of it being something that's not discussed, it really is an
advantage to you know, have your recruiters, your frontline people, bringing
people in your organization, understanding why you pay the way you do, and
whether or not that's equitable and how that's going to impact the entire
employee relationship. It's it starts at your front door.
Garry Straker 24:56
Yeah, I agree with you. Trish. I think we're going to get to point where
employees are going to start looking for that level of disclosure. And it's
going to vary, you know, from from each organization, but they're going to look
for some signal that what this organization says is consistent with what they
do. And, and if there's a disconnect there, you're going to get called out on
that. And it's, it's going to become pretty obvious, especially in the
competitive environment, we're in pretty obvious in terms of which organizations
really are walking the walk. And I think employees are going to get more
sophisticated and more savvy, and making sure that they're understand what
they're getting into whenever they join an organization.
Kevin Plunkett 25:41
And I think I sort of, sort of characterize it as sort of secrecy, but I think
it's probably more of just a fear of sharing, right, a fear of sharing data.
Either A, they may not even know that it's good, right? I mean, they make, you
know, organization may be afraid to share, because, like they don't didn't even
know what the benchmark is, or if there is a benchmark. But I think, to your
point into all of your points, is don't worry about the benchmark, just the fact
that you're out there sharing it, you're ahead of the game, you're doing more
than most folks are today. How does one communicate pay equity? And, and what
are successful strategies for doing so?
Garry Straker 26:21
You know, I think the the the messaging and the communications around this can't
be understated, I think it's just really important that organizations spend time
and commit to investing and making sure that their, that their communication
strategy really does support all of the the work that's being done, you know, to
shape and define culture and improve pay practices and policies. And I think, to
extend that messaging is ubiquitous and consistent across the organization, that
just creates a common understanding, because I think the worst thing you can do
is be vague, and not clear. Because employees will, you know, interpret that
differently. Yeah,
Trish McFarlane 27:07
I think Garry's right on it with the consistency, I would say, put it in every
meeting, anything that's important, should be mentioned. And so if that is the
direction that your organization feels, you need to take to change your culture
to be more open around, pay and pay equity makes that part of any major
conversation you have from the top down so that it becomes more comfortable. And
it becomes something that people understand that you are not afraid to talk
about.
Kevin Plunkett 27:38
So it's a so it's both consistency and frequency them.
Trish McFarlane 27:42
I think so.
Garry Straker 27:42
And I think there needs to be some accountability at all levels of the
organization around this. Because if if you are a manager of employees, you need
to be accountable for making sure that you're communicating consistently and
appropriately relate as it relates to pay. And that's not a skill set that a lot
of managers have a lot of managers still feel very uncomfortable with that
conversation. But as a manager of people, you have to be comfortable with that.
And if you're not, you need to get the information needed so that you can reach
that comfort level and get some additional training and support to make sure
that you can have those compensations effectively.
Kevin Plunkett 28:20
Yeah, so let's talk about that for a sec, Garry, because I think that's a good
point. How do you help your managers or your let's say, your organization, as a
whole has not had a, it's not been a culture of sharing? How do you, you know,
overcome that hurdle a bit and start to, you know, start the process of
educating managers and the organization as a whole.
Garry Straker 28:44
You know, again, I think you've got to lay out a pretty well defined process.
And I think this is where, you know, even internal marketing or communications
professionals can, can be really helpful in this regard. It's not something that
I think HR should, you know, carry the burden for exclusively, I think that
there are, you know, multiple stakeholders who who should participate in that
process. And you should engage, you know, as many of those as needed to make
sure that your managers and leaders feel comfortable that they're getting the
support and information they need to be able to talk credibly about this really
important topic. That is, it's, you know, it's a very sensitive emotional topic
for for just about everybody.
Trish McFarlane 29:29
I think managers also are not always aware of their own pay, and where they
stand in the organization as well. I mean, we're sort of assuming, you know,
managers and other leaders are all part of the, you know, the bigger picture and
quite often in business, that's not the case, right. In an organization. You've
got a ton of managers in the sort of that mid level who really are just they're
trying to run their little piece of the, of the kingdom, if you will, and so
they might not even understand what what their compensation and their pay is
comprised of, and and what if they're not a good performer themselves. Now all
of a sudden, we're going to expect them to be the mouthpiece to go out and sort
of communicate effectively with their teams. So I think too, you have to look at
what is the performance level of the management team that you have in place, and
then to Garry's point, adding and layering in that training and education around
how to have those conversations. But I would say make sure you're starting with
them, make sure they know where they stand first and how that works. And why are
you paying them the way you pay them?
Garry Straker 30:34
Trish, I love that. It's like a litmus test. Yeah. And so if you're a manager in
your organization, I would encourage you to go to your manager and say, Can you
please explain why I'm paid what I'm paid? And if you don't get a satisfactory
answer to that question, that should tell you something. And that really, from
there, you know, should lead hopefully to a more honest conversation about some
of the gaps.
Kevin Plunkett 30:57
Excellent. So let's talk about pay equities role in recruiting. We did a survey
where 96% of HR pros said Pay Equity is a competitive advantage in the war for
talent. So let me ask you, how do you balance trying to be equitable, while also
knowing you have pay compression issues or GAAP issues within your organization,
Garry Straker 31:21
organizations have been very creative about introducing new new approaches to
try to differentiate themselves in the market. But I think it's really important
that employees understand that you basically are looking at this and responding
in the short term, but you have a longer term vision, where your focus and
commitment to pay equity is not going to be, you know, discarded or set aside
just because of the current economic climate. And I think, again, coming back to
employee expectations, employees will generally respond positively if they see
that their employer is actually, you know, taking the necessary steps to make
sure that they're the what they do, and what they say, are consistent in that,
knowing that there going to be some ups and downs, and they're going to be some,
you know, changes in the in the labor market dynamics, which mean, you might
have to change how you do things. But in the in the long term, I think employers
need to be sure that they're not losing sight of their goals and aspirations and
vision as it relates to, you know, pay equity and diversity, equity inclusion,
we're in a bump in the road right now. And it's important to sort of recognize
that we have to, we have to navigate that bump in the road without letting it
derail us, right without creating just a train wreck that we can never recover
from. And I think a lot of work that needs to be done in that area, particularly
now.
Kevin Plunkett 32:54
Right. So Garry, what I heard was that paying people more is an option. But not
every organization will be able to do that and sustain that long term.
Trish McFarlane 33:04
I think this is the fun part for HR, right. So this is where you can get your
team together, your leaders together, you can come up with really interesting
strategies of what employees need at different phases of their life. And
typically, historically, we've not seen a ton of this. But I would say start by
asking your current employee base, based on where you are in life right now, if
you had a wish list, what could the organization be doing to help you because
you'll have people who are just maybe buying their first home, and they need
education and help with that. Maybe they are putting you know, someone through
college, maybe they're now caring for an elderly, parent or parents, and they
need assistance and guidance on how to do that, you know, I have aging parents
who, all of a sudden, I don't know how to do this, I don't know how to help help
them. So if my organization is stepping up and giving me education around some
of these life experiences I'm going to go through, that's probably more helpful
than giving me you know, $1,000 more every year.
Kevin Plunkett 34:08
Interesting. I mean, after serving our company, our HR team had just started
offering all the employees the calm app, and our head of HR told me the adoption
rate was really high. So to your point, Trish asked employees what they need and
want.
Trish McFarlane 34:24
Yeah, and that's what shows you care about your employees. I mean, that takes us
all the way back to the first question about culture. If you're a culture of
caring about your employees, you will get a little more forgiveness if you have
and uncover areas where you are not paying as equitably currently as you would
like to be.
Kevin Plunkett 34:44
And it's building that trust, like we talked about at the beginning, right? It's
you know, if there's a level of trust between the organization and an employee
that helps significantly with with an engaged workforce,
Trish McFarlane 34:56
absolutely. helps you get through those those roadblocks and the bumps in the
road as Garry said, right? I mean, I kind of chuckled when he said that, but I
thought, well, that's, that's spot on how how work is and how life is right,
we're going, you know, you're going to have those big bumps. So you might as
well think about other ways to prepare to handle those. And it's not always just
pay. But it's, it's thinking about all of it collectively, and how it impacts
your employee base.
Kevin Plunkett 35:25
This has been really great, thank you both so much. I mean, we've covered quite
a bit like the importance of seeking input from leadership and employees to help
define equity for your organization, are using data to identify gaps and manage
the pay equity process, communicating consistently and frequently to your
employees. And, Garry, you made a good point, that it's an iterative process,
it's going to take some time. And Trish, you made a great point, that building
trust with your employees base, will give you a much longer runway to address
any issues. But at the end of the day, it's about making the effort, right show
when the employees that you're working on it, and demonstrate some
accountability. So what would you do to make an immediate impact on pay equity
in your organization today?
Garry Straker 36:17
You know, ultimate, let me start with that. I mean, I think it's important as HR
and rewards professionals, that we be extremely vigilant about making sure we
are good stewards of pay practices and policies within our organization. And I
think we have to be honest with ourselves about the current state and really
help, you know, define maybe what the future state might be, and hopefully build
some consensus around that. But I would say that, you know, there are
incremental steps that you should, you should think about that you can take, and
it may feel overwhelming to try to solve everything overnight, and take on, you
know, the full scope of some of the things we've been talking about. But there
are some incremental steps that you could probably define for yourself, so that
you can begin to, you know, go down this path, and hopefully, take those steps
that move you closer to where your aspirations lie.
Trish McFarlane 37:10
And you know what to sort of add on to what Garry's saying, I think that when
you actually take a first step of assessing where your organization is, probably
not as bad as you think it is, you might have, you know, fear of looking into
this, but you'll probably be surprised that in many areas of your organization,
you are paying equitably, because we have for many years, you know, use
different ranges and benchmarking and all of the data. You know, I remember 20
plus years ago looking at Salary.com to, you know, understand pay and where
things are. So I think we've give yourself a little bit of credit to start out,
we've been talking about this before, maybe not to this level. So start there, I
would say also don't just go after the low hanging fruit, it's not about just
giving, you know, the group that's the loudest, an extra dollar an hour, that's
not going to solve your problems. So really assess which roles in your
organization need to be paid, maybe above market currently, which ones are
driving your success currently, and then being able to have those conversations
through education. I think the last thing I would tell our listeners would be to
make it such a priority so that you have someone that if you're an HR, for
example, pick a more junior HR professional on your team, tasked that person
with staying current on what's going on in the industry, what's going on with
pay equity, have them come back and report it and maybe it's a weekly report
that you're getting from that individual that goes out to your whole team that
that they can work on with you for your executive team about where the the topic
of pay equity is going and then how your organization is sort of progressing
toward better, more equitable pay for your employees.
Kevin Plunkett 39:05
The Get Pay Right podcast is produced by Kevin Plunkett, Mary Crogan and Megan
Nadeau. If there are topics you'd like to hear about, let us know at Get Pay
Right at Salary.com. A big thank you to our sound engineer Jay Sheehan of
Garrett Audio. Thank you all for listening and make the time to get it right.
Listen to the Experts
The Get Pay RightTM podcast examines compensation topics from all angles
offering multiple points of view so you can make informed decisions for your
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https://www2.salary.com/l/250572/2021-06-26/2sxcqgt
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