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Submission: On July 25 via manual from GB — Scanned from NL
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* Forums New posts Forum list Search forums * What's new New posts New resources Latest activity Trending Threads * Resources Latest reviews Search resources * FarmTV * Farm Compare Search Tokens/Searches * Calendar Upcoming Events * Members Registered members Current visitors New Resources New posts Log in Register What's new Search SEARCH Everywhere Threads This forum This thread Search titles only By: Search Advanced search… * New posts * Forum list * Search forums Menu Log in -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Register -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Navigation Install the app Install More options Contact us Close Menu * Forums * Arable Farming * Cropping JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. ECONOMICS/NUTRIENTS OF SEWAGE CAKE /SLUDGE AND COMPOST? * Thread starter Pilatus * Start date Feb 16, 2017 P PILATUS MEMBER Location cotswolds * Feb 16, 2017 * * #1 I see some farms in our area have piles of sewage or compost in piled fields. Although not farming now, I am interested to know which nutrients the sewage cake sludge has in it ,how many tonnes to the ha is normally applied and how much a tonne do you have to pay for it,I am sure it is not free!!? Do any of you that have the sewerage cake/sludge piled in your fields , have any of it independently tested to check that you are getting what they say it is, I am a sceptical old so and so . I assume the compost made up from "Green bin waste mixed with wood chip etc",is applied mainly to help build up the organic matter of your soil rather than for the nutrient value,is it very costly and how many tonnes a ha need to be spread to have an effect. I ask all the above as with profit margins low at best,non existent at worse , I would imagine one needs to be getting value for money from the above as they are another expense, and asking "Are they really improving my bottom line?". I appreciate many of you are contract farming and your client pays for the inputs and so the payment cheque for the above would come out of their bank account. If I were a tenant farmer , like I was, on a high rent,I really would be looking VERY hard at how effective the above are at increasing my bottom line,if at all. Reply W WANTON DWARF MEMBER * Feb 16, 2017 * * #2 I like compost BUT the stuff we recieve is full of rubbish so TBH eventually we will have to stop or the land will become poisoned. When you see knives, forks, scissors, lorry parts, batteries, metal garden furniture, foil, beer cans etc you really begin to question what you are doing. Reply * Reactions: Bogweevil and Iben STEEVO MEMBER Location Gloucestershire * Feb 16, 2017 * * #3 MX7 are you north of Gloucester? It depends a little on the source of the compost as to what it contains. Some for example contains food waste as well as green waste. As for sludge, yes you pay also. STW try and "reclaim" some of their cost from it as they were "told" by the regulator apparently. Sludge contains 3 yrs worth of P and is good value at that. STW also have their own farms that they apply it to at silly rates, but the produce grown there cannot ever enter the food chain. I've never visited one but would be quite interested to see how well it is "farmed". I've built my indices up to 4's and 5's the last few years, and will be taking a holiday from buying in any more product for a year or so, both to save money and not go overboard and cause trouble with excess nutrient in the soil. I can see it will get harder and harder for firms to get payment for compost, chicken muck, sludge etc etc. going forward - as you say people don't have the money for it. Supply and demand. Reply * Reactions: Brisel P PILATUS MEMBER Location cotswolds * Feb 16, 2017 * * #4 > Steevo said: > MX7 are you north of Gloucester? It depends a little on the source of the > compost as to what it contains. Some for example contains food waste as well > as green waste. > > As for sludge, yes you pay also. STW try and "reclaim" some of their cost from > it as they were "told" by the regulator apparently. Sludge contains 3 yrs > worth of P and is good value at that. STW also have their own farms that they > apply it to at silly rates, but the produce grown there cannot ever enter the > food chain. I've never visited one but would be quite interested to see how > well it is "farmed". > > I've built my indices up to 4's and 5's the last few years, and will be taking > a holiday from buying in any more product for a year or so, both to save money > and not go overboard and cause trouble with excess nutrient in the soil. I can > see it will get harder and harder for firms to get payment for compost, > chicken muck, sludge etc etc. going forward - as you say people don't have the > money for it. Supply and demand. > Click to expand... I live between Cirencester and Gloucester,(Winstone) ,an estate farmed by Velcourt, is having sewage cake delivered at 4.30 am onwards !!! Reply MRNOO MEMBER Arable Farmer Location Cirencester * Feb 16, 2017 * * #5 I have had some for quite a few years, but the last time when they delivered 300t of the stuff onto next door's spring barley I thought enough was enough (fortunately he was very good about it) but I will add that we had some "overwinter" as it came in too wet to spread, so it just sat there and was spread almost a year after being piled up, it was excellent, I still see the benefits of this "overyear'd" sludge some 3 years later. They wavered payment and spread it for free. I am sure it sitting there for a year made it much better. I would have some every year if I could afford it, we always try and put it on before the OSR. Compost I looked into but haulage knackered that even at £1/t. Reply * Reactions: rose pilchett BRISEL MEMBER Arable Farmer Location Midlands * Feb 17, 2017 * * #6 Sewage works run 24 hours/day, 365 days/year. Around here Wessex Water works have 3 days' storage on site, that's all. I'm Wessex Water's biggest single consumer of their finest digestate cake. 5500t/year here though Velcourt units use more spread over several client accounts. £4.75/t delivered and spread for a nitrogen, phosphate and magnesium value of £9.80/t. The main nutrient is phosphate. 20 t/ha gives 27 kg/ha available N to the next crop but 3 crops' worth of P. The price needs to be lower as the organic matter content is only 20% of fresh weight and there is a hassle value of compaction around the heaps & headlands plus inevitable loss of some topsoil when loading into spreaders and the wait for the spreader gang to arrive. The water boards like high pH soils as they are light enough for year round access to tip plus the pH keeps the heavy metals locked away. I haven't bought much P fertiliser for a long time except where variable rate top ups are needed in hot spots or SPZ1s exist around boreholes. Green compost is much more marginal for fertiliser value vs cost as haulage kills it. The plastic contamination is the big problem here and why I've stopped using it for now that I'm direct drilling. Compost is great stuff for soil biology, even big 80mm bits of wood or pine cones which will break down over years and years. It is higher in K than sewage so is a great balancing product. 30 t/ha contains a couple of crops' worth of K. A 19m3 14 tonne grain trailer will hold around 7 tonnes of compost though silage sides will get the full weight on. Fertiliser value varies a lot. What I see around here has differed from £8/t for PAS110 food+green waste to £3.50/t for poor quality pre screened 80mm down green waste compost. If you sell the straw IMO you should put some of the income in compost if you want to reinvest in your soil. I tend to look at an analysis of the product, determine it's NPKMg value vs bagged fertiliser (crop available nutrients only not total) then treat the organic matter and not inconsiderable trace element content as compensation for the hassle. Budget £2 - 2.50/t to spread an in field heap of any commodity, though if you do it with your own well depreciated spreaders it will be less than that. I buy in FYM at £2.50/t fresh weight delivered and then spread it using contractors as I can't justify buying my own kit. The fertiliser value is around £5/t (+/- £2). Sewage has to be spread by the contractor to ensure "consistency" Last edited: Feb 17, 2017 Reply * Reactions: Bogweevil, whitefox, rose pilchett and 4 others WARNESWORTH MEMBER BASE UK Member Location Chipping Norton * Feb 17, 2017 * * #7 > Steevo said: > I've built my indices up to 4's and 5's the last few years, and will be taking > a holiday from buying in any more product for a year or so, both to save money > and not go overboard and cause trouble with excess nutrient in the soil. I can > see it will get harder and harder for firms to get payment for compost, > chicken muck, sludge etc etc. going forward - as you say people don't have the > money for it. Supply and demand. > Click to expand... Andrew, I think you have already achieved 'excess nutrient'. Are you planning to buy the necessary potash, copper and zinc with the money you have saved from your cheap phosphate? Reply * Reactions: whitefox WARNESWORTH MEMBER BASE UK Member Location Chipping Norton * Feb 17, 2017 * * #8 > Brisel said: > The water boards like high pH soils as they are light enough for year round > access to tip plus the pH keeps the heavy metals locked away. " > Click to expand... The high pH also nicely hides the excess of Phosphate too, so they (the water boards) can apply more! Everyone's a winner, except maybe the farmer. Reply S SILLIAMWHALE MEMBER Location Does it matter anymore how far WalterP is from me? * Feb 17, 2017 * * #9 > Warnesworth said: > The high pH also nicely hides the excess of Phosphate too, so they (the water > boards) can apply more! Everyone's a winner, except maybe the farmer. > Click to expand... > Warnesworth said: > Andrew, I think you have already achieved 'excess nutrient'. > Are you planning to buy the necessary potash, copper and zinc with the money > you have saved from your cheap phosphate? > Click to expand... Interesting you say that as I've been applying outdoor chicken muck to some fields for about 3 years in decent doses where the soil was pretty tired. Its done a great job in improving it but now its time to stop for a few years as the PH indices are creeping towards 7 and the P into 4. Reply STEEVO MEMBER Location Gloucestershire * Feb 17, 2017 * * #10 > Warnesworth said: > Andrew, I think you have already achieved 'excess nutrient'. > Are you planning to buy the necessary potash, copper and zinc with the money > you have saved from your cheap phosphate? > Click to expand... Previous experience has shown little to no benefit from copper and zinc products so imo it doesn't pay to apply them. P and K are both at acceptable, balanced levels and provide sufficient available nutrient for the plant without causing a problem. The main benefits are from OM and biology. Reply * Reactions: Brisel BRISEL MEMBER Arable Farmer Location Midlands * Feb 17, 2017 * * #11 > Warnesworth said: > The high pH also nicely hides the excess of Phosphate too, so they (the water > boards) can apply more! Everyone's a winner, except maybe the farmer. > Click to expand... What excess? 20 t/ha given 230 kg/ha total P not available P. The pre delivery analysis legally has to show this. That's just under offtake by crops of wheat, spring barley and oilseed rape over 3 years. Application is every 3 years. Reply STEEVO MEMBER Location Gloucestershire * Feb 17, 2017 * * #12 > Warnesworth said: > The high pH also nicely hides the excess of Phosphate too, so they (the water > boards) can apply more! Everyone's a winner, except maybe the farmer. > Click to expand... Are you suggesting there might be a bias because they have a vested interest in shifting product....? Reply MARSHBARN MEMBER Location shropshire * Apr 1, 2017 * * #13 Can i ask a couple of questions first how much weight would a 12 tonne grain trailer hold of chicken muck and what would the NPK and limeing value of chicken muck be? Reply T TW15 MEMBER Location DORSET * Apr 1, 2017 * * #14 Wet fresh stuff just a couple of days old you would get around 12 tons on dry chicken muck about 8 tons i recon . Reply * Reactions: marshbarn CAB-OVER PETE MEMBER Location Kenilworth, Warwickshire * Apr 2, 2017 * * #15 > marshbarn said: > Can i ask a couple of questions first how much weight would a 12 tonne grain > trailer hold of chicken muck and what would the NPK and limeing value of > chicken muck be? > Click to expand... Liming value would vary. I've no specific figures but I'm told broiler muck has very little lime in it but layers muck has a fair dollop because their feed has lime included to help with egg shell hardness. That's just anecdotal stuff I've heard over the years. Reply * Reactions: Brisel Remove formattingBoldItalicFont size * 9 * 10 * 12 * 15 * 18 * 22 * 26 Text colorInline spoilerStrike-throughMore options… List * Ordered list * Unordered list * Indent * Outdent Alignment * Align left * Align center * Align right * Justify text Paragraph format * Normal * HEADING 1 * HEADING 2 * HEADING 3 Insert linkInsert imageSmiliesMediaQuoteInsert tableMore options… UndoRedoToggle BB codeDrafts * Save draft * Delete draft Preview Font family * Arial * Book Antiqua * Courier New * Georgia * Tahoma * Times New Roman * Trebuchet MS * Verdana UnderlineInline code Insert horizontal lineSpoilerCode Write your reply... Post reply Insert quotes… Share: Facebook Twitter Tumblr WhatsApp Email Share Link DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THE TERM BRD REFERS TO? * YES Votes: 23 38.3% * NO Votes: 37 61.7% See comments… UK FARM ASSURANCE REVIEW - A CALL FOR EVIDENCE FROM FARMERS Jul 12 * Promar International * Jul 12, 2024 * 634 * 1 Survey link: https://app.onlinesurveys.jisc.ac.uk/s/promaraf-2021/the-uk-farm-assurance-review The deadline is Saturday 31 August 2024. The next steps in a comprehensive independent evaluation of the UK’s farm assurance schemes have been announced by the Commissioners of the UK Farm Assurance Review. The project, jointly set up by the National Farmers' Union (NFU) and AHDB, along with NFU Cymru, the Ulster Farmers' Union (UFU) and NFU Scotland (NFUS), will focus on repurposing UK farm assurance for a post-Brexit world. The independent review of the UK Farm Assurance System is planned to report at the end of this year. The Commissioners leading this review have now issued an online survey that can be completed by any farmer in the UK, from any sector that will help provide... News Continue… SHARE THIS PAGE Facebook Twitter Tumblr WhatsApp Email Share Link * Forums * Arable Farming * Cropping * Advertise With Us * Contact us * Terms and rules * Privacy policy * Help * Home * RSS Supporting knowledge transfer: Community platform by XenForo® © 2010-2021 XenForo Ltd. * This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. Accept Learn more… Top