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THE FRONT PAGE OF GLOBAL FINTECH

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Hey Fintech Friends


🎧 PODCAST: HEY FINTECH FRIENDS FT KARTA GIFT GARDS

HELEN FEMI WILLIAMS

Jul 18, 2023 23 min

"We're in the business of gifting, do it on your terms your way, the way you
want to receive it the way you would want to actually have that experience." -
Claire

Listen on all streaming platforms
‎Hey Fintech Friends!: Hey Fintech Friends ft Karta Digital Gift Cards on Apple
Podcasts
‎Show Hey Fintech Friends!, Ep Hey Fintech Friends ft Karta Digital Gift Cards -
18 Jul 2023
Apple Podcasts



TRANSCRIPT

Helen 0:00
Hey fintech friends

Helen 0:19
Welcome to this great episode. Make sure to tell your mom tell your grandmother.
Tell your sister tell your mates tell your friends tell your dog about this
podcast because we're not just a FinTech podcast.

I like to think that we have a bit of fun on this. The structure of this podcast
is as always, we're gonna go through the FinTech, news of the week, which is a
fintechy Word of the Week, then we're gonna go through the news, the FinTech
news of the week, then I'm going to have a chat with this week's friends all the
way from Australia.

It's Karta. The whole company is all about gifts, who doesn't love receiving
gifts, giving gifts? I do love both of those things. Then we're gonna go through
the signals of the week, which is like a snippet from our premium subscription.
And last but not least, the events.



FINTECHIONARY: IPO


Acoording to investopedia, refers to the process of offering shares of a private
corporation to the public in a new stock issuance for the first time. An IPO
allows a company to raise equity capital from public investors.

The transition from a private to a public company can be an important time for
private investors to fully realize gains from their investment as it typically
includes a share premium for current private investors. Meanwhile, it also
allows public investors to participate in the offering.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


NEWS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


INTERVIEW WITH CLAIRE AND DAVID

Helen 4:11
Claire and David are the cofounders of Karta gift cards. Claire has 15 plus
years of global experience at Amex paired with David's gift card experience
cards his gift card launched in the Australian market 2022 And is now in
preparation to scale globally via the UK and US hope you enjoy this episode.

Hi guys, it's a pleasure to talk to you. I know you're based in Australia, but
you're here in London. What are you guys up to in London?

David 4:41
That's a good question. So we're lucky enough to be here representing the
Australian government looking to help businesses bridge into different
countries. They've supported us in America. That's actually where we met Visa
the first time. And now we're over here in London and heading over to Amsterdam
next week. Like for money 2020

Helen 5:01
Amazing. You're on like a European world tour. And I've never been to money
2020. But I do hear it's like the Coachella of fintech.

Claire 5:11
Okay, excellent.

Helen 5:15
So I'd like to kind of take a step back, actually, and kind of find out a little
bit about you both. So maybe introduce yourselves, introduce Karta. And
honestly, like, if you were to explain Karta, to someone who doesn't work in
FinTech, like your mom, or your best friend or whatever, like how would you
explain Karta's mission and what you guys are doing?

Claire 5:41
Simply our mission is just to enable any business to issue and run their own
gift card programme.

Helen 5:49
I think you have a mission or business that everyone can kind of get behind.
Everyone likes getting gifts. Everyone likes receiving gifts, for the most part,
I think. So. So maybe like, in a lot of ways, it's something that is easy to
understand, easy for people to like, get behind. So what what was kind of the
reason why you guys thought to kind of start this business, or why this
particular mission?

David 6:19
Yeah, so it's a very good question. You're 100%, right, like gift cards,
everyone knows what it is, the thing that we're solving is the pain point of one
that the experience is in great, everyone's got a gift card in the past, and
they've lost it, it's expired, they haven't been able to use it.

And then at the same time, it's very hard to get a gift card for your favourite
restaurant, or cafe, because you're really limited in choice. Even though it's a
trillion dollar industry, you've got less than 3% of retailers that actually
make it up and what we've created as a platform that enables any business under
the sun, to be able to issue a gift card, but then from the consumers
perspective, it can go straight into their phone, it could be a link that you
send someone, it could be part of our patented technology where you could just
tap a physical card against your phone. And it instantly goes into it. But we
just want giftcards to be as easy to use as any visa card that someone has. And
if we do that we think we can win.

Claire 7:14
And to add to that, Dave did reference globally; it's a trillion-dollar
opportunity. It's forecast at almost doubling size in the next five years. So
what we want to do is actually go to new segments and verticals to actually
unlock the power of gift cards that many businesses have been shut out from
before because the barriers to entry are just too high. So most of the top sort
of high street retailers offer gift cards because they have the means,
resources, and money to do so. But if you look at like the local coffee shop
down the road, or even a nice local high-end restaurant, they don't have those
means and resources to actually have their own branded gift card to actually
drive new loyalty to either new customers or to existing return customers. And
that's what we want to do. We want to open this up to any businesses to help
them grow their business as well.

David 8:17
Just to show you an example, this is a little cake shop in Australia. This is a
card that goes straight into Apple Pay and Google Pay, locked down to their
tool, so no one else can use it.

And I think to illustrate the point here. We don't require the merchant to do
anything, there's no integration, we can onboard them. So it's completely
frictionless from their perspective as well.

Helen 8:37
That's really interesting. And I feel like it's really interesting because we
have gift cards; when I think about even myself, who I received gift cards from,
it's probably older people who give me gift cards. And then when I get gift
cards, to be honest, it's when I can't find the receipt for something. And then
I asked them, can I get a gift card instead?

Because I don't want anything in the shop and I don't want to exchange anything.
But I think there is definitely this space of, I guess, the need for a gift
card. But like, like you said, when it's not that easy when it's not accessible,
you're just like, Okay, I'm not, I'm not gonna get it.

Or you know, you can only get, you know, a gift card from a High Street store,
like you said. So I say that to say, like, do you feel like you've unlocked a
different demographic or a different audience of like this new generation of
people who are interested in gift cards, like based on this idea of it being
easy, because I know for me as a 27-year-old, the easier it is, the more likely
I am to tap, like, especially the UK, we're all about tapping. That's all we do.
We don't really use quite a cashless society here. So yeah, I'm just wondering
about that point.

Claire 9:44
Definitely. I mean, that's what we're looking to drive that adoption with
younger people that are in a much more relevant way on their terms. So, you
know, when we set out this business, one of the concepts that really resonated
with us internally was this whole show me that you know me, so even if you are
We're in the business of gifting, do it on your terms your way, the way you want
to receive it the way you would want to actually have that experience. And then
the breadth of in terms of actually opening this up to any, you know, High
Street store, or even other business units as well, like legal services,
accountants, like everyday sort of services that you may use. It's just like
making it as commonplace as possible but in a new way. So it's just, it's just
bringing it into the 21st century.

Helen 10:31
know that makes a lot of sense. Like, the easier it is, the more likely people
are to use it. And even as well, I think about, like, the gift cards that I
have, they start to feel annoying because I'm like, they're physical. And after
a while, I'm like, if I don't actively have this, then I go past the store. And
I'm like, I don't just carry around this gift card. So it does become this, like
during processing. And so then I don't get a gift card because I don't want to
keep it in my wallet. And I don't necessarily just want to have it at home, and
then then the gift cards expire. And then then, I'm annoyed.

So I definitely can see how that is. You're literally solving that whole issue
because, like, I'm literally looking at a gift card I have up there, which I've
been needing to spend because I don't want it to go and be expired. Yeah,
there's a lot here around like gift cards and gift giving and stuff, I guess,
you know, if I was to say like, you know, in looking at a magic ball of like,
10, five to 10 years, like, what does? What does? Where will Karta be? Because I
know you've been working with VSA, and it'd be good to kind of know about that.
And then you're expanding quite heavily in different countries; like, what does
the big plan look like for Karta?

David 11:39
It's a good question. So the way we attack the market is threefold. So what we
did in Australia is we launched, and we partnered with the shopping centres
because the equivalent of assignments in America, they do a lot of gift card
sales. So we were able to give them a digital-friendly solution, which they
haven't been able to attain before just from a cost basis. But giving the user
the benefit of a very good UX, like you talked about. So that was stage one, to
get the product to market. Then step two, we're in the process of working with
the Commonwealth Bank of Australia, who are strategic investors in us, to enable
gift cards for their consumer base; they've got the biggest retail and business
distribution in the country. So that's a very great base for us to be able to
grow off.

And then step three is taking the patented technology into the largest retailers
and partnering with them. So you could purchase one of their cards. And as you
said, rather than leaving it up on your shelf and forgetting about it, purchase
it or receive it as a gift; tap it against your phone, and it's instantly in
your phone as a digital card that you can just tap that that's the way we go to
market. So we've done that in Australia, where we're in the process of enabling
the UK right now in the US. So we can try and replicate that as best as we can.
Yeah, that's

Helen 12:53
awesome. And then I guess after Australia, the US, you've got the whole of you.
You've got Asia, which is close to Australia. There are so many; I mean, as I
said, it's something that we can all get behind. It's a universal sort of issue,
issue and solution. I was wondering, have you seen like a, I don't know, if you
saw on the email, like FinTech stat or fat that you think it's quite
interesting, within this space, or just in general,

Claire 13:19
definitely. So we know that retailers, as much as consumers, love gift cards. So
it's a big opportunity. But some fun facts that we have researched and seen
statistics around is that if you are given a gift card, you're more likely to
actually spend a lot more than what's actually the stored value on the gift
card. So the perception, a lot of the time upon receiving that, is its free
cash.

So if I were to receive or give you a 100-pound gift card, nine times out of 10,
you go in and spend more than that 100 pounds because you're like, it's free
money in a gift that I can get my format. So it's great for the retailers as
much as it is for the consumers in that sense. And the other stat that's really
stood out is that four out of 10 consumers when they receive a gift card at a
new merchant, 're considered a new customer. So imagine if you know that
restaurant that we talked about down the high street, where to actually bring in
new customers because that word-of-mouth referral piece works really well in the
form of a gift card. It's like, hey, we know you love coffee. Here's a coffee
card that you can go and use wherever you'd like, anywhere in London. That's
quite a compelling gift. And it allows the cafes in a way to actually see an
opportunity to attract new customers into their stores.

David 14:36
I think another thing just to add to that, which is so unique to the gift card
space and contrary to everything else under the sun and fintech, physical state
sales still lead the way by a long way. They make up about 70% of gift card
sales. Digital is definitely growing at a faster rate. But physical has so much
more volume. It's not funny, and that's still a growing industry. It's not
actually in decline. So it's quite interesting. Good to see that.

Claire 15:00
But one thing that is also standing out for incumbent retailers that, you know,
have good cards as part of their bread-and-butter proposition is that they move
away from plastics. So another really interesting statistic is that through our
technology, you can use paper instead of plastics for the actual physical gift
card itself. Now, that's got a great environmental sort of, you know,
opportunity for a lot of businesses as well. So there's a real adoption of
change coming through the industry, which is very time.


Helen 15:30
Yeah, I mean that there's a really, really interesting fact on this. I mean, do
you feel that, like, when it comes to gift cards, then the focus is on the kind
of brick and mortar like the physical stores, that's where things still are? Or
do you feel like it is there is still this, like, there's a closer push towards,
like, online,


Claire 15:49
it's a convergence of both; you need both; you can't have one or the other. For
it to actually scale, the way that it's predicting to, I think where we come in,
though, is driving a change in the actual behaviour. So still having the
opportunity to have to choose between either a physical bricks-and-mortar type
experience or a mobile-first digital native experience. But where we stand out
that makes us quite unique to a lot of the incumbents is we offer the option to
switch between those methods in a way, you could actually start in-store and
then end up using your phone, or vice versa; you could actually, you know, use
it in store as well. So that's our sort of USP.


Helen 16:30
Yeah, I feel like that definitely makes it so much easier because I feel like as
it stands, and it's so interesting, actually, because, you know, as you've
talked about it this, this, like you said, the culture of like gift cards I've
not, I've not actually like thought about the process behind it. And the fact
that, for instance, if I have a gift card, I know it's something like this JD
sports gift card I have, I know, I can only physically use it. But you're right.
At the same time, if I go, there are likely going to spend more than what's on
the gift card. Because in my head, I've kind of seen it as this, like, saving
money thing, which is not saved because I obviously spent the money. I just
wanted to exchange something. So there is this like thought process which has
been created. And it is really interesting. I would never even ask them, like,
can I use this online because I'm so used to this; the culture of gift cards is
like, you go to the physical store, you see what's there. You have to use it
within whatever a year or however long it is. And sometimes you go there, and
it's expired. And you're just like, Oh, I forgot to use that gift card.


Claire 17:28
That's the worst experience, isn't it? You're not alone.


David 17:30
There are a lot of people that do that.


Helen 17:33
It's so annoying. And, I think there's a twofold thing because it can be like a
store that you don't usually go to because, as I said, if I think about when I'm
given a gift card a lot of the time, it's, I can someone who thinks I go to the
store and I don't so, and it doesn't mean I wouldn't buy something from that. It
just it's just, I guess, not my number-one place to go.


David 18:17
So it really comes down to the user experience. So we've taken the step that we
need to give users the best experience. Because right now, if you've got a gift
card different store, you don't know how to use it. Do I need to download an
app? Do I scan a QR code? So having that ubiquity where you can literally tap
something is critical because everyone just knows that at that point in time,
any gift card that runs on Karta, all you need to do is tap it, and then you can
go from there. And then it's just building the merchant adoption. So they
understand, hey, that customers like this, they love it. They're actually
spending more on gift cards, exactly what you said; this is free money to me;
I've already got the gift card and spent more. That's where we see the
opportunity to really grow the pie rather than fighting for income and market
share that so much opportunity.


Helen 19:03
What do you think will be the thing that stops you working in FinTech? Or, like,
when do you feel like it will be finished?

Claire 19:24
I think, look, I think the opportunity is so big, it feels like it won't be a
quick win; it will be a long-term burn. Like if you think about other payment
methods that are sort of very commonplace in society today. A lot of those
companies are over 100 years old. So you know, you could say that we actually
have ambitions to be global and a big player in this space. And competitors in
this space have been around for decades, maybe not hundreds of years, but
decades. So we would see something similar being here for how we actually stay
relevant; it's the core question. On the flip side, I mean, you know, as a
startup, you can't be in denial that it's a tough time, you know like a lot of
startups fail.

We've had that experience in a former life where another startup that we worked
in, that we created didn't, didn't survive. So we've got eyes wide open as well
about the reality of what we face in the tough battle ahead. But I think the
biggest thing that I know I take personally conviction in knowing that we're on
the right path is that we've been around now for two years. And we continue to
get more and more demand-driven for our product, which is wonderful. You know,
we've got a great partnership with Visa underway. We've got a big national bank
in Australia which would be the equivalent of, say, NatWest for Barclays or a
Lloyds TSB size over here. So the fact that we've got these big companies that
want to do business with us gives me at least that conviction that we're on the
right path.


David 20:55
I'd be one of the emphases on the guys at Visa, like they actually had to change
their bylaws to enable us to work with us the way we wanted to work. But when
you've got such a big established business, but they're willing to make
necessary changes to be able to create the opportunity to innovate, that it's,
it's amazing.


Helen 21:13
Yeah, I mean, I think you're like, I didn't realise you guys are only around for
two years; it seems like you've really, really expanded so quickly over those
two years. So there's clearly a need for it. There's clearly like, there's
clearly so many people taking interest and like, like you said, you've got your
partnership with Visa. So it seems super successful to me. But it is really
interesting what you say as well. But like kind of, you know, the, I guess the
wisdom of the fall like you kind of maybe because you've done something before
where it didn't work, you have a clearer idea of like what success looks like
what failure looks like, which I think I find with a lot of like people who've I
guess started something and failed and tried again, the scar tissue.


Helen 21:58
I want to ask you some questions from the previous guests. The last question I
asked was, what's one FinTech story we haven't seen yet that we're gonna see in
the next 12 months? You might say, Karta. I don't know. I'll direct that. If
you've got a different one, I'll direct that.


Claire 22:17
One thing we're really excited about in the next six months, so gift cards are a
highly seasonal business and industry. So roughly about 50% of all sales happen
at Christmas.

One thing we're really excited about is we're going to be featured in some
stores here. Like it's like a department store version, what can I liken it to?
It's probably similar to Primark over here. So we're going to have our featured
in stores like Primark in Australia over the Christmas period, but more
importantly, the ability to convert a physical card into a mobile wallet, right
there, and they're in your phone. So that's like a complete industry first.

That is a real test for us. But also for, consumers like to say, hey, it's I'm
just not lifting it off the pegs like I normally wouldn't go and pay at the
point of sale. I can literally purchase this with my phone and embed it into a
wallet or gift it even via their mobile phone as well to someone else. So we're
really excited to see that because if that actually succeeds, we are changing
the way consumers can actually buy and use gift cards in the future. So that's
quite disruptive in HR. So pretty excited about that.


Helen 23:23
Yeah, I'll tell you now, if there was a Primark gift card like that my mum would
buy my mum would be buying that for me and my sister and my niece, like, I'm
telling you now, I would already have one of those because she would have
already bought it. Okay, I'll ask a different question, Dave. What's your
spiciest fintech? Hot take on FinTech today.


David 23:46
Wow. Okay so I think we absolutely love what Afterpay did ClearPay over here. It
was scary how fast they could roll it and their credit in no time. So yeah,
that's, that's it for me.


Helen 24:11
Okay. That works. And let's keep going, Claire. Okay, this kind of goes with
maybe something you were previously talking about. Like? What regrets? Or if you
do have them? What regrets do you have as a founder on your journey as a founder
so far?


Claire 24:28
Great question. I don't know if it's a regret, but it's something that's front
of mind, which is how do you balance? You know, trying to sort of have, like,
we've got an amazing team. We've got a great level of people, but it's so hard
in a startup environment to always offer maybe some of the perks that sort of
bigger companies can offer. So it's like, how do you always attract but also
retain the talent that you want so hard? And I think we've had times where we've
started a path and thought, This is the path. And then, of course, it never
actually turns out that way. And we've had to pivot and adapt. And it's been
hard sometimes to take everyone with us on that journey.

Because ultimately, at the end of the day, especially as the cofounders,
survival is everything, like cash flow is everything. And making sure,
therefore, to be in that position where you can keep growing the business on
your terms, the way you know, is the best path, which requires possibly a pivot,
which is what we've seen in the past. Sometimes you got to make hard decisions
and let people go. And that's always hard from a humanistic perspective. It's
the stuff that sticks with you. It's the stuff that you actually always go
through, what could I have done better on reflection, and how to actually not
repeat some of the mistakes, but mistakes are very common for founders.


Helen 25:44
Yeah, I think it's tough because like a big company can offer so many perks. And
then a startup maybe can't, but it also offers a lot of flexibility. And I don't
know if their stock options and stuff. So it just depends on what people like
one. I mean, I've kind of I'm freelance now. And previously from that, I've
always worked in like massive corporations and then making that that jump where
I kind of work for people, but I kind of don't, it's really interesting now,
like, seeing it on the outside, because I guess when I work, it's only if, if
I'm working with people, it's like; specifically purpose driven. I don't just,
like, chill; it's on my terms. But you also get to see, like, how much, I guess,
time is wasted? Because people like have, like, I don't know; I don't even know
what I'm saying but like, have that kind of like, have full-time jobs.

So they're the expectations from the managers, so interesting. And then the
expectations from the employee, because you've got this, like, all of this
surrounding and the emotional aspects behind it that I don't think I can afford
to kind of have any more or not have but you know, I mean, like, it's just
separate. Dave asked you one more question, what was your kind of like, oh, shit
moment in your career. So you can take this in either way as, like, you're sort
of like eureka moment of like, this is what I should be hearing. Or you can take
it as like the time in which, like, You thought you're totally on the right
track in, like, you're like, oh, shit, this is completely wrong. I made a
massive mistake.


David 27:16
I think it's interesting, right? Because when you're a kid growing up, you see
people in careers, sometimes they wanted to do something, and they're like, Hey,
we wanted to be an astronaut, or an engineer or something along those lines,
never had anything in my head whatsoever, in terms of this is what I want to do
when I grow up. I probably haven't had a great Eva. It's more like opportunity
to opportunity than then a career per se. But I think not answering your
question entirely. When you know you've landed in the thing that you're supposed
to be doing.

It's a very weird and comforting feeling because I think you've got this
levelling or grounding where you're not looking or trying to seek an
opportunity. For me, that was probably like 2017, the first time I fell into
gift cards, and you get exposed to this billion-dollar opportunity, just on a
local level, where, from a technical perspective, any card that you see has like
five different intermediaries that sit behind it, just like antiquated supply
chains that are absolutely ripe for disruption as Claire said, like trillion
dollar industry that is growing at astonishing rates, where we're just very
lucky. I think this is an industry that no one takes seriously, probably because
it's so crowded right now. And the opportunity is just so right for us. It's not
funny. So having that level of comfort and reinsurance knowing that, like, what
we're doing is what we're meant to be doing. I think it just makes you more
bullish; you go for it. And that's where it's at. But yeah, every second day, a
tonne of mistakes as well.


Helen 28:50
Oh, that's that. I think that's so good. Like, it's I love to like when people
know that they're, like, working on their purpose. And, like, I'm super
confident and sure about it, just because, like, I think that's a really good
question. I would like to kind of know if Claire's sort of ship moment, too, or
if it's the same as Dave in 2017.


Claire 29:10
So Dave's much more sort of entrepreneurial and has been looking at this I'm
much more from a corporate perspective. So, I call it; I'm a recovering
corporateholic. It's a very different and just essentially, I think my oh shit
moment is where this has felt really opportunities like this where you get to
travel the world and into new markets and expand your network. And last night,
we were pitching to VCs, you know, like, those are the little moments that you
just go, this is so different to what my past was in my history and what I've
always had comfort in knowing. So I feel like I'm really travelling a path
that's a lot less common, a lot more risk in terms of that perspective as well.
But ultimately, so fulfilling, so I Don't think I have those oh shit moments
where it's like slamming me in the face per se. It's little micro-moments where
I go, Oh, wow, if I pinch myself, this is amazing, this experience that we're
undertaking, and the ability to drive this shift internally and inside of myself
as well as externally in the industry. There's a lot of personal growth that
comes with it as well.


Helen 30:20
Oh, that sounds amazing. And I do hope you're enjoying your time in London.
Okay, I want to move on just to our last bit now, but I just want to ask you a
couple of questions has nothing to do with fintech. It's just quickfire. Ready,
Dave? Would you rather have a one-minute conversation with your past self or
your future self future?

Claire, if you could reincarnate yourself, would you rather come back as a human
or an animal?


Claire 30:47
Definitely human


Helen 30:50
Would you rather spend the day wearing wet socks or spend the day with popcorn
kernels stuck in your teeth?


David 30:56
Both are terrible options. Wet socks?


Helen 31:00
Claire, would you rather never leave the country or never come back? Let's say
Australia because I feel like that makes sense. Why would you want to stay here?


Claire 31:10
That's a tough one. It's really tough right now. Because I've got children, I'd
have to say never leave the country, but that would break my heart.


Helen 31:18
Dave, would you rather know what your pets think of you or never hear them
speak?


David 31:37
My birds always speak to me, so I know exactly what they're thinking. Then
already?


Helen 32:11
Would you rather eat a whole jar of mayonnaise or a whole tub of butter?


David 32:23
I don't eat any of them.


Claire 32:28
You have to choose one.


David 32:33
Yeah. Mayonnaise. I guess the


Claire 32:38
the question is very interesting.

Helen 32:58
Amazing. Well, thank you guys so much. I got I've got one more question. What do
you think I should ask the next friend or friends of the show?


David 33:10
What's the worst gift card experience I've ever got?


Helen 33:12
That's a good one. And I'll be like, What have you heard of Karta?

Give these guys a call. They can change your life. Amazing. Thank you guys so
much. Thank you, Claire. Thank you, Dave. This has been great. Nice start to the
day. Thank you for coming on. Hey FinTech friends. Yeah,
Claire 33:31
thank you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


SIGNALS

Signals is our subscriber only reads and I'm going to read you a snippet from
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us.

Last week we covered what the Federal Reserve, OCC, and FDIC's latest guidance
on third-party relationship management means for US banks. The guidance has also
been highly-anticipated by fintechs, who will need to step up to meet updated
requirements across all of their bank partners.

Here we dive into how fintechs should position themselves in response, with
insights from leaders on what the guidance means specifically for fintechs in
areas like open banking, lending, and Banking-as-a-Service. It's also worth
calling out which issues are not addressed by the new guidance, and where to
look for answers on some of the biggest questions on fintech regulation that are
still left open.

Finally, we'll summarize the takeaways for banks and their fintech partners
going forward.



EVENTS
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