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DPReview closure: an update
Now reading: Samsung's new 5K 27" ViewFinity S9 monitor is coming after Apple's
Studio Display 196 comments
196


SAMSUNG'S NEW 5K 27" VIEWFINITY S9 MONITOR IS COMING AFTER APPLE'S STUDIO
DISPLAY


Published Jan 2, 2023 | Gannon Burgett
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Credit: Samsung

Last June, Samsung announced the ViewFinity S8, a pair of 27” and 32” 4K
computer monitors designed for the needs of creative professionals. Now, the
company is back with its new ViewFinity S9 monitor, a 5K 27” display that bears
a striking resemblance in looks and specifications to Apple’s Studio Display
announced last year.

The new ViewFinity S9 (model number S90PC) features a 5K (5120 x 2880px) IPS
display that covers 99% of the DCI-P3 wide color gamut with a Delta E≦2 and
HDR600 support. Those specifications are essentially identical to Apple’s Studio
Display, which offers the same resolution and DCI-P3 coverage. However, unlike
the Studio Display, which comes with a glossy screen by default and requires a
$300 upgrade for its ‘nano-texture glass’ matte finish, Samsung’s ViewFinity S9
comes with a matte finish with no option for a glossy coating.

DPReview: Apple Studio Display Review

In addition to third-party calibration tools, Samsung has also included support
for its Color Calibration Engine technology, which uses the company’s Samsung
Smart Calibration mobile app to calibrate the monitor. Samsung started putting
this feature in its 2022 TVs and it’s now making its way to its monitor lineups.

Assuming this works the same on the ViewFinity S9 as it does on Samsung TVs, the
process involves getting Samsung Smart Calibration - Apps on Google Play,
connecting it to your monitor over Wi-Fi (the ViewFinity S9 runs Samsung’s Tizen
TV OS) and using either the ‘Basic’ or ‘Professional’ mode to calibrate the
monitor’s color profile. The graphic below shows how the ‘Basic’ mode is done by
placing the smartphone right against the monitor, while the ‘Professional’ mode
requires the phone to be placed further back on a tripod or stand.



The ViewFinity S9 also comes with a low-profile 4K SlimFit webcam that attaches
to the top of the monitor and features built-in automated zoom control that will
track subjects in the frame, similar to the Center Stage feature on Apple’s
iPads and Studio Displays.

On the rear of the device is an array of inputs and outputs, including
DisplayPort, HDMI, Thunderbolt 4 and USB-C, with Power Delivery charging support
up to 96W, which is more than enough for the 70W the new 14” MacBook Pro models
charge at and just shy of the 100W the new 16” MacBook Pros can top out at.
Samsung hasn’t shared the exact specifications for the I/O on the monitor. We
have inquired for more information and will update the article when we receive
additional details.

It's twins! Or, it's just Samsung's ViewFinity S9 next to Apple's Studio Display
(not to exact scale, but it should be close, based on roughly the same diagonal
measurement).

Samsung hasn’t revealed when the new ViewFinity S9 will be released, nor what
its price will be. However, it’s clear Samsung is looking to target would-be
buyers of Apple’s Studio Display, which comes in at $1599 for the glossy model
and $1899 for the nano-texture finish model. So it’s likely we’ll see Samsung
either split the difference between the two Studio Display models or undercut
them entirely if they’re really hoping to make a splash.

Tags: monitor, samsung, viewfinity-s9

View Comments (196)


COMMENTS

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robertmanningjr

I see all these comments on matte vs glossy and which one is professional. Yes,
the Apple “Professional” displays offer a choice while Samsung does/will not.

But can we all agree that these are not professional displays? Apple’s XDR
display claims to be a professional display, but we know it’s not. They know
it’s not and they are not trying to say it will replace a Sony or Flanders
Professional display.

Apple states on their website (for both displays)“ Every Pro Display XDR screen
is engineered for extremely low reflectivity. And if you’re in an especially
uncontrolled lighting environment, there’s an innovative matte option with
nano-texture glass...”

Anyone doing professional work is not in an “especially uncontrolled lighting
environment”. That is the only reason Apple suggests using the textured display.

Professional, true professional displays, are between 25 and 30K.

I do think Samsung is making a mistake by not offering the option.

Reply
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2 months agopermalink
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gangel79

Its there any indication of the release date for this? some sites are quoting
Q1.

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2 months agopermalink
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EDWARD ARTISTE

DCIP3 is not the best for photography... Its a VIDEO (movies really) standard.
For photography, always look for adobe rgb coverage.should be in the very high
90's at least. This monitor cant even hit 100% of a lower gamut. Boo.

Dcip3 is almost no better than srgb. They are limited color gamuts in
comparison. I'm surprised of this article that didn't note rgb coverage. It's
almost like hard drive manufacturers not showing the rotation speed because it's
so low.

Ive been reviewing monitors for the last year, and all of the research I've done
brought me to that consensus. I was really curious why DCIP 3 numbers were all
over the place, in the past it was never mentioned as a spec.

Adobe rgb. That's what you want. For limited gamut video, use whatever else.

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1
2 months ago*permalink
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Matpan

If it doesn't come with a $1000 stand I won't even bother...

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5
3 months ago*permalink
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georgia hiker

But does it have a removable power cord?

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3 months agopermalink
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PKblue

This new Samsung monitor looks interesting. It won't be that cheap though if it
has Thunderbolt 4 support.

However, the big question is what PPI will it be?
Part of the reason Apple Studio display and LG Ultrafine are more expensive is
because they use 218 PPI whereas most displays are only 160 PPI at best (and the
higher PPI displays are more expensive to produce). This higher PPI is
fundamental to the "Retina" experience and is linked to why Apple uses certain
resolutions (eg. 5K instead of 4K). It makes a big difference to the clarity and
ease of use of using Apple displays (as well as the glossy thing). I can barely
stand lower PPI monitors at the office anymore - prefer to just use MacBook
screen (I have iMac at home)

Some people may not care about the difference, but for me it is essential to use
a higher PPI display. For this, Apple Studio display has no real competitor (LG
Ultrafine needs an update to be considered a competitor again I feel)

PK

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1
3 months agopermalink
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RonnyW

Samsung ViewFinity S9: 27", 5K resolution
Apple Studio Display: 27", 5K resolution
Guess the PPI ;-)

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6
3 months agopermalink
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PKblue

Hmm, yeah I should have thought through that a bit more lol.
But perhaps there is other stuff going on for Apple displays, and it’s that
glossy element that makes all the difference. Won’t know how good the Mac
experience on the Samsung will be like till I physically test it

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3 months agopermalink
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Hide replies   Reply
wcan

how does this monitor and for that matter the Apple monitor compare against LG's
"IPS-Black" technology?

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2
3 months agopermalink
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EDWARD ARTISTE

There's a couple of reviews of the bigger IPS black model from Dell on a few
websites. Ars.technica is one.

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2 months agopermalink
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Sordes Pilosus

I did work on CRT-monitors, and I remember when first LCD-monitors appeared,
there were some glossy screens in ghe shops. But users really believed, and many
still do, that matte screens do not reflect light, and didn't bought glossy. But
all LCD screens are glossy by nature, and matte finish is just a matte film,
like glued polyethilen bag on the screen. It always makes the screen worse by
1. replacing glossy reflections with more pronounced diffuse, thus capturing any
Envinromental light heavelly readucing contrast in the daytime.
2. reduce somehow contrast in the night
3. Add "crystall effect"
4 reducing sharpness.

As Eve Spectrum - glossy 4K high-quality screen exist, I'd prefer to buy it.

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10
3 months agopermalink
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Bumblebees

And the funny thing is…
There ar no true professional monitors that uses a glossy panel/surface. Because
glossy panels creates a lot of reflections.

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1
3 months agopermalink
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Sordes Pilosus

Of course there are professional glossy screens. Funny thing is that matte has
much more reflections, didn't you get this? The only way to reduce reflections
is put coating on the glass, what is made on TVs, but no coating possible on
matte.
O.k., you may look for perfect comparison on youtube, just search for:

how has nobody made this before dave2d

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3 months agopermalink
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Bumblebees

Ok Sordes, so name one professional monitor that has a glossy surface.

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3 months agopermalink
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Sordes Pilosus

Sony HX310 is professional enough for you?

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3 months agopermalink
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Bumblebees

Yes, and its not glossy either. The EIZO Prominence uses the same panels and the
colorists working with theese two do what ever they can to minimise reflections.
They even have e.g. grey clothes + an heavily controlled environment (special
grey walls, only lights behind the monitor, curtains etc).

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1
3 months agopermalink
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Sordes Pilosus

of course it is glossy. Are you banned on Youtube?

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3 months agopermalink
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Bumblebees

Are you banned for seeing one in real life?
They are far from being ”apple glossy”, very far.

Totally different surface.

I think you are locked on office/gaming monitors.

A semi high end graphical monitor (2000-3000$) even thoug it is matte, isnt the
same matte as gaming/office monitors.

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1
3 months agopermalink
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Sordes Pilosus

I worked with this Sony for some time in postproduction. Glossy reflections
means sharp reflections. You failed with your arguments, you need to learn
basics

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3 months agopermalink
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Bumblebees

First you gathered your knowledge from youtube and now you have worked on a
30.000$ monitor?

I’m sorry, you are still wrong. Why not actullay get in contact with a real
colorist ask instead?

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3 months agopermalink
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Show more replies (4)   Reply
Billy34

“ In addition to third-party calibration tools, Samsung has also included
support for its Color Calibration Engine technology, which uses the company’s
Samsung Smart Calibration mobile app to calibrate the monitor. Samsung started
putting this feature in its 2022 TVs and it’s now making its way to its monitor
lineups.”

Would love an article on this from dpr!

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7
3 months agopermalink
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gaseouscreature

The LG 5K is fabulous and now only 1100.00 at some stores. Hard to beat.

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2
3 months agopermalink
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Mr Bolton

And isn't the panel inside that Apple display a very similar part from LG?

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1
3 months agopermalink
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jaberg

Yes. It’s the same panel as that in the Apple Studio Display. Nearly every other
component differs and the monitors are by no means identical, nor do they
perform identically. There’s more to a monitor than the panel.

The LG 5k has a mixed reputation for build quality and reliability. I’ll be
happy to see Samsung enter this market.

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1
3 months agopermalink
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Gannon Burgett

@jaberg: As noted in our Studio Display review (linked in the above article), it
is not the same display panel. At least according to Apple itself when we
inquired. They are nearly identical though on specs though.

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3 months ago*permalink
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Mr Bolton

@Gannon Burgett "not the same display panel" is Apple speak for not the same MPN
because it's being vended to Apple versus used in OE brand monitors.

@jaberg The panel is what makes the monitor. I'd buy that Apple springs for a
little bit nicer power supply and so on-though I wouldn't bet the farm on
that-but the reality is, you're paying the Apple tax if you buy the studio
display. If you're OK with that, then it doesn't matter. If the nicer case is
worth the extra several hundred dollars, then go for it.

The new Samsung seems to be more versatile in terms of ports and connectors than
the Apple model. And I'm working on this via a Samsung monitor, so I do like
their displays.

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3 months agopermalink
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jaberg

@ Mr Bolton: Apple is using different backlighting, different timing chip, etc.
It is literally only the panel itself that is the same.

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3 months agopermalink
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Mr Bolton

Of course they are. No Apple product is ever the same in any form or fashion to
any other lowly PC product, from the same factories in the same country from
whence most of our computer gubbins originate.

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1
3 months ago*permalink
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Bumblebees

See the panel as the sensor guys - the sensor works as an solar panel = it
records physical energy via a lot of lens elements and creates a digital
signal., The panel works in the other direction, meaning creating physical
energy from a digital signal through a lot of different filters. The rest,
meaning wiring, camera processing, buffer is a different thing.

So even if eg Nikon uses Sony sensors it doesnt mean that they are the same. The
Nikon sensors has different wiring and the camera has different processors.

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2
3 months agopermalink
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Bumblebees

See the panel as the sensor guys - the sensor works as an solar panel = it
records physical energy via a lot of lens elements and creates a digital
signal., The panel works in the other direction, meaning creating physical
energy from a digital signal through a lot of different filters. The rest,
meaning wiring, camera processing, buffer is a different thing.

So even if eg Nikon uses Sony sensors it doesnt mean that they are the same. The
Nikon sensors has different wiring and the camera has different processors.

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3 months agopermalink
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5Korbust

near new condition used ones for $600 or so can be easily had on [insert popular
marketplace website here] as well. So far, there is no competition.

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3 months ago*permalink
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Show more replies (4)   Reply
elektrobank

Why on earth would they not offer glossy on a pro-monitor. Matte looks awful

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5
3 months agopermalink
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mujana

Don' t know, but maybe because they decided that this is a pro monitor and light
shouldn't interfere too much with what you see on screen? pro for photography?

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7
3 months agopermalink
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gaseouscreature

I used to believe in Matte when Apple's monitors had that feature. But for
widest dynamic range, for photography editing I think glossy probably delivers
more.

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3 months agopermalink
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elektrobank

I have all glossy monitors and I don't notice any glare at all. I've tried using
matte monitors and instead of a small reflection, which you barely notice, you
get a haze over the entire area where there would be a reflection and it really
interferes the quality of the image, almost like your monitor is covered in
frosted glass. At least give the option.

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4
3 months agopermalink
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mujana

I have both a glossy screen and a matte screen next to each other. At the same
time I do have lights in the room where I do my photo editing/etc.
The glossy screen is great for watching/viewing. For working on my images, I
always turn to my matte screen. Not only because of this alone, but for working
I prefer my matte screen.

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4
3 months agopermalink
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Vince P

Because any reflected light is not part of the image the pro is supposed to be
looking at or working on. Hence hoods for monitors and matte screens.

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4
3 months agopermalink
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jaberg

If monitor glare is problem for your production monitor, look to your room — not
the monitor — for the solution. You can’t do accurate, repeatable work if the
room lighting isn’t consistent and within your control.

That being said, I personally prefer Apple’s current generation non-glossy
screens.

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3 months agopermalink
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mujana

@jaberg.
You’re right. That’s why I close curtains and try to keep consistency in
lighting. I also think that there are different solutions to make screens less
glossy; different coatings/anti reflection filters/etching/ whatever. I like my
matte screen a lot for working on images/editing. Don’t notice any “veil” or
softening in any way.

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1
3 months ago*permalink
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Rihass

IT's something I'll never understand. TV's, tablets, cellphones, watches, car
screens and pretty much everything else uses glossy screen. But the mighty
monitor, god of all gods, can't. I guess they don't like money. Not having an
option is the most stupid thing.

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3 months agopermalink
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mujana

@rihass.
Well, they can (as many, like Apple, show), but sometimes they don’t want to.
Probably for a reason, don’t you think?
I think there are more glossy than matte displays around.
You even have to pay extra to get that Mac Studio Display in matte.
So with that Studio Display you have an option.

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Show more replies (4)   Reply
120 to 35

"Last June, Samsung announced the ViewFinity S8, a pair of 27” and 32” 4K
computer monitors ...". The announcement was on DPReview but my web searches
today do not find any store, including Amazon, selling that monitor. Samsung's
web site shows lots of their UK resellers but they don't actually list the
monitor. Are these just announcements without actual products?

Reply
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1
3 months agopermalink
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Revenant

It's listed as "in stock" by Amazon US, at least, so definitely an existing
product.

https://www.amazon.com/SAMSUNG-ViewFinity-Resolution-Thunderbolt-Adjustable/dp/B0BF72MB9S

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4
3 months agopermalink
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Yasir007

What is listed in Amazon is the price for the S8. Not the S9.
I’m guessing the price might be $800.

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3 months agopermalink
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Hide replies   Reply
jhorse

I am in the market for a new display. I am in the process of moving from PC to a
MacBook, which I have just got and now want a display, mainly for Office 365,
web browsing and photo editing. On the basis that most of the screen specs are
in a similar ball park, for me, there are two criteria that will sway my buying
decision. First, the viewing experience. I have seen the Apply Studio Display
and like what I see. Second, the system integration, which must be seamless and
'just work.' As I am likely to keep a screen for several years, the price is
less important, so long as they are within a couple of hundred of each other.

Reply
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4
3 months agopermalink
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eno2

One could also get the Xiaomi Mi 27" 4K screen with similar specs and 1/3 of the
price.

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4
3 months agopermalink
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Fabian743

How are the specs similar if 5k has 77% more pixels. How old are dp readers? Can
you really not immediately tell the pixelated mess that is 4k at 27 inch?

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14
3 months agopermalink
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eno2

@Fabian743 "Can you really not immediately tell the pixelated mess that is 4k at
27 inch?"

You must be joking right?

For 27" even FHD resolution is very good!
My main screen is 64" 4K and I can't see the individual pixel further than 40-50
cm from the screen, which is a very good number cause I stay over 1m away from
the screen.

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3 months ago*permalink
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hunk

Eno2, as a video-pro I can review real UHD with sharpness etc ànd the toolboxes
on a 5K screen. Totally worth it.

Of course, as a gaming monitor 4K would be plenty. Most **** is better at
extremely low resolutions.

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1
3 months ago*permalink
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strawbale

@eno2 http://tools.rodrigopolo.com/display_calc/ would tell you not retina from
50" (not cm) - maybe see an optician?

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1
3 months agopermalink
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eno2

@strawbale "maybe see an optician?"

I just saw one and my vision is very good, but thank you for the concern. :)

Resolution is not all, the matrix of the screen also contributes to how far or
close you can distinguish pixels on the screen. Instead of unnecessary high
pixel density, I prefer color accuracy and a good pixel matrix. But hey this is
not a feature advertised, so be my guest, throw away as much money as you can on
unnecessary high-rez small screens, the manufacturers will be thrilled by the
prospect.

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2
3 months agopermalink
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Sordes Pilosus

Eve spectrum is 4K GLOSSY screen - this is one ti choose.

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3 months agopermalink
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strawbale

@eno2 You "prefer color accuracy" and use a 64" 4k (TV) as main screen?
I rest my case.

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2
3 months ago*permalink
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eno2

@strawbale

You can rest your case as much as you like, there are better image-quality TV's
out there than you can imagine (actually there are better OLED TVs (image
quality vise) than very expensive dedicated production monitors). But hey,
please don't research the matter, remain ignorant, and buy expensive and small
"dedicated" monitors, the vendors will love it!

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3 months agopermalink
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strawbale

@eno2 you vision may be "very good", but you reading skills aren't - where did I
say ANYTHING about want I buy or even what I'd suggest ANYONE buy, including
you? The only comment I made was about you not being able to distinguish
individual pixels from further than 40-50 cm on a 64" 4k.

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1
3 months agopermalink
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Vince P

The best Oled TVs, fully calibrated, are not close to the colour gamut that a
professional monitor can manage. I have a couple and one is Pansonic LZ2000
which is pretty good They look great but that's not the main criteria for
critical work. It's not marketing hype that makes production studios spend 10k
per monitor if they could use a 2K Oled TV instead.

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4
3 months agopermalink
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Station Grey

You can also buy 2 litre diesels for less than 3 litre sports cars.

You can't compare apples with oranges on price.

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Show more replies (6)   Reply
-Teo-

A 5K for this sized display is a must have for MacOS. Not native resolutions is
an issue for me on MacOS as UI designer. Here you can better understand why
https://bjango.com/articles/macexternaldisplays2/
I’ve tried several displays to replace an iMac 5K last year but the only I’ve
found suitable for a low budget was the Studio Display.
If this samsung had been available earlier, I would certainly have tried it, but
I think I would have discarded it because it has a matte finish like others H3
anti-reflective treatment.
Strange? I’ve tested some displays side by side and in a fully lighting and
reflections controlled room, the glossy coating display (iMac 2019 and Apple
Studio Display) had better performance than others with H3 anti-reflective
treatment (an iMac 2015 was worse).

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7
3 months agopermalink
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AndreasOberg

Better screens are always welcome. I did not see anything about what HDR tech it
uses. Those micro LEDs? I'm guessing. 27" is really on the small side for this
resolution though.

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2
3 months agopermalink
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Station Grey

It's subjective but I think 27" is pretty much spot on for this resolution and,
if anything, a touch large.

The doubled 2560 resolution is probably about right for most people I'd have
thought through.

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3 months agopermalink
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hunk

I always use two screens side by side so two times 27" is perfect.

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3 months agopermalink
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miric

Oh, that's nice. Probably the first robust step of 3rd-party display makers
towards higher resolution displays. I really don't understand what's an issue to
make 5K 27-inch displays, at least two last years. I saw only a single attempt
from Iiyama, not so successful. Looking forward to seeing a 3rd-party 6K 32-inch
display from Dell, yet in my current life.

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1
3 months agopermalink
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Sordes Pilosus

Simple issue, is that many programs do not support proper interface scaling for
even 4K.
4K is plenty for 27-32 screens, anyway.
Eve spectum is the best 27 4K option nowadays.

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3 months agopermalink
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miric

@Sordes Pilosus didn't see any issues from this kind so far.

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It will be fine

For me the non-matte panel surface of the Studio Display is the headline
feature. It has some really good coatings that immensely reduce the brightness
of any reflections which the LG Ultrafine lacks. They are key in the design of
modern lenses which many of us fancy. Compared to the omnipresent matte glow in
everyday ambient light on my secondary panel the Studio Display is a black hole.
Also the remaining reflections are on a farther focal plane which makes it
really easy to ignore when you focus on the displayed content.
I really don't get the fanaticism with matte coatings. It seems to me like a
overcompensation for the early 2000s super glossy everything era.
Also I wouldn't call the nano-texture option on the Studio Display an upgrade.
It is an option for a special use case and not a general improvement which Apple
wants you to pay for because they like to do so.
So I think this Samsung will not be able to compete simply because of the
mattedness.

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13
3 months agopermalink
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Mk82

No matter how you try to coat the glossy panels, you have severe reflections
from behind you. That is something that matte doesn't suffer that much at all as
it is so soft.

The glossy panel does increase contrast in the images, that makes them more like
the early 2000's super glossy era and oversaturated colors like Samsung loved to
do, even today in these best displays.

That is why the matte version is still the benefitical.

And anyways to get in good color corrected room, you are sitting in very dim
color corrected (with paint) room where overlight color calibrated lighting is
only thing that is adding light, and your displays are around 5-10% of their
brightness capabilities because you don't want screens to lit the environment
either and be overbright.

Anything else and you don't see colors, contrast or brightness correctly and it
is waste of money and time.

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3 months agopermalink
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Martin Datzinger

I think a well coated non-matte panel is superior as well. Hence I immediately
disregarded the Samsung.

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It will be fine

@Mk82 So I am sitting in front of a Studio Display and I have a hard time to
make out anything reflected. In the matte Dell U3223QE that stands next to it I
can clearly see myself. It is all fuzzy and diffuse but rather brightly glowing.
The Dell's 2000:1 contrast seems more like 200:1 in real life since the
measurement cuts ambient light.
Also I feel like I can judge colors and tonality of pictures quite well on the
Studio Display without all those environmental precautions. That is a new
insight for me since it is the first time I am using a non-matte panel and just
for a few months now. I can only recommend trying it out.
Most of the work I do running my business isn't color critical and as I human
being I prefer a cozy and liveable studio environment to a neutral cave.

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Sordes Pilosus

I did work on CRT-monitors, and I remember when first LCD-monitors appeared,
there were some glossy screens in ghe shops. But users really believed, and many
still do, that matte screens do not reflect light, and didn't bought glossy. But
all LCD screens are glossy by nature, and matte finish is the a matte film above
glossy screen, like glued polyethilen bag on the screen. It always makes the
screen worse by
1. replacing glossy reflections with more pronounced diffuse, thus capturing any
Envinromental light heavelly readucing contrast in the daytime.
2. reduce somehow contrast in the night
3. Add "crystall effect"
4 reducing sharpness.

As Eve Spectrum - glossy 4K high-quality screen exist, I'd prefer to buy it.

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Bumblebees

@it will be fine.
The funny thing is that you cant judge if a color is fine/right.
We as humans doesnt have that capabillity.

Look at this:
http://www.psy.ritsumei.ac.jp/~akitaoka/Eyecolorconstancysignal2.jpg

If you edit pictures on your Studio display, they will not look the same on the
print, and probably will viewers via other monitors perhaps see your pictures as
quite poor of colors and maybe lacking contrast, since your monitor exagregate
them a lot. You dont get what you see.

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silentstorm

I sure hope such pro monitors come with 75Hz and/or 90Hz refresh options to
reduce eye strains. That would be super duper! The 27" fits nicely on my desk.

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Mk82

You don't get any benefits from higher refresh rates with LCD panels for eye
strain.
Why? Because the panel technology is not same as the CRT was.

In the CRT you have a black frame between each frame, so you see it flickering
in light sensitive area of eye.
In LCD every pixel stays on (in fact, every dimmable LED is flickering thousands
times per second regardless the refresh rate, so their illumination power can be
adjusted lower) and there is no change in the image unless it is redrawn.

So only thing in normal office use you get is that mouse cursor or anything else
that moves fast, will get more frames. And mouse movements are so slow that it
doesn't really matter. If you shake your mouse cursor on screen as fast you can,
you don't even get amount of refresh rates frames as "tail" is so short.
What matters far more is proper environment color and brightness calibration and
having a fast refresh rate display, like 1 ms.

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silentstorm

Not sure how accurate you are Mk82, but if there's a refresh rate rating of
60Hz, it must mean that there are "black" frames in between images. The liquid
crystal in the Liquid Crystal Display will twist and polarize the light to "shut
it off", so to speak.

Anyway, I just bought a new laptop for my boy going back to school 2 weeks ago,
it's a Asus Zenbook 14 OLED. It has 60Hz and 90Hz selection. The scrolling of
web pages, doc, pdf, etc shows a difference. My desktop has a 144Hz IPS lcd
screen and I've tested 60Hz vs 120Hz/144Hz too. The higher refresh rate does
make a difference in normal daily use.

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Billy34

75 hz does feel more natural to me. Looking at a 60 fps slideshow may not
contribute to eye strain but it’s fatiguing in that it’s more artificial.

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Mk82

"but if there's a refresh rate rating of 60Hz, it must mean that there are
"black" frames in between images. The liquid crystal in the Liquid Crystal
Display will twist and polarize the light to "shut it off", so to speak."

Pixels do not shut off between refresh cycle, they only change their state. The
transition time in pixels is the panel delay time, like how long it takes from
pixel to go from black to white and back to black. In industry that is measured
these days commonly from grey-to-grey so grey-white-grey instead going black.
And that is only done when you actually need to go from color to black as in
image. But LED in pixels is not ever turned off when it needs to switch state.

When you look this comment box now, it is white. There is no pixels pulsating or
changing state, they are lit on constantly. Only when you bring black (or other
color) area over it, will the state be changed from white to it, and that state
change happens Hz times but within delay of milliseconds.

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Mk82

There is a big difference are you using LCD panel with 16 ms response time, or
with 2 ms response time.
For a common office use the 16 ms response time is not a problem at all, because
you are not looking anything moving, as it is mostly just text that is done.

For a gaming that 16 ms becomes problematic as it makes everything fast moving
blurry, as every pixel that needs to change its state has delay how long it
takes to change that color. And it looks as ghosting or motion blur. Where 2 ms
panel will not cause that.

For video watching the 16 ms can actually be great as it does add that motion
blur effect, and 24-30 fps doesn't get affected from it as 16 ms delay time is
equal to 62.5 frames per second.
But 48/60 fps footage gets that odd blurring in fast moving parts as colors fade
behind the change.
The 2 ms delay time can change the state 500 times a second, equal to 500 FPS.

If someone thinks that 60 Hz display is slideshow, they are imaging it. Delay
time matters more!

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Bumblebees

Hertz and flicker isnt the same thing as already mentioned.

But most of the brands uses pvm (pulse) to drive their monitors.
So, if monitor brightness is high, the pulse is high, hence low flickering
problem. But when you lower the light on the monitor, beacause e.g your room is
darker, you can get flicker.

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Trolly

Why no proper 8K monitors yet?

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panteleimon

Why on Earth it’s needed?

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Jonas Palm

a) They exist.
b) They are useful in some sizes for some people. That’s enough.
c) There is a point in moving technology to a point where it is simply good
enough, and thus removed from consideration. Screen resolution is a
technologically really simple limitation to get rid of. Completely.

Few people would like phone screens to go back to being reasonably good. Why
would we want to see pixelation?

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Mk82

"c) There is a point in moving technology to a point where it is simply good
enough, and thus removed from consideration. Screen resolution is a
technologically really simple limitation to get rid of. Completely."

The 4K (3840 x 2160) is already a such.

Full HD (1920 x 1080) is well meeting that quality among most people, but for
critiq people 4K is already more. As after FHD the limitation is really the
content, and there is no such video format even today that could overcome the 4K
quality and reason is bayer filtering in sensors.

But even old CRT tech can be superior to todays 4K ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8BVTHxc4LM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_-9Rw5CJNE

The one tech is not superior to another tech, they are different.
And it is question of the content that you want to be viewed in wanted look.

Everything as in 1 and 0 is not better than A and B.
That is why different art forms exists, as different methods result different
look that can be better.

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Trolly

The reason for asking is I find it a bit pointless to shoot my 50 MP camera when
the monitor only goes to 8 MP. I need to print an image on paper to see the
benefit over my lower resolution cameras, and then the difference is more down
to sharpening parameters. I usually don't crop allot.

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bradman83

Honest question - if you're finding it a bit pointless to shoot 50 megapixels
for your use case then why buy a 50 megapixel camera? You could save money and
drive space with a lower resolution version (ie: 24 or 33 MP). Unless you do
some serious cropping or primarily print to extremely large format most users
don't actually need that kind of resolution. Plus the larger pixel pitch on a
comparable technology lower resolution sensor will give you better low-light
results.

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mujana

@Trolly.
I use a 60+ MP camera and I use a 27” 2560x1440p monitor next to my 27” 5k iMac.
For photography (editing/working on files/prepare for printing etc.), I always
and only use the 2560x1440p screen. The 5k iMac is for viewing and everything
but photography.

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Trolly

@bradman83
I sometimes print large so 50 MP is nice to have, but not really needed. The
difference may only be visible when comparing to another camera which is quite
pointless to do.

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Bumblebees

@trolly

You wrote ” I find it a bit pointless to shoot my 50 MP camera ”.

What is really pointless is to shoot with your high mp camera with great
colorspace and look at pictures on a monitor which have low colorspace, and not
hardware calibrated.

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Trolly

Not sure what colorspace has to do with resolution.

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EDWARD ARTISTE

You wouldn't be able to push that with the raily weak graphic cards on Apple
silicon.

People tend to forget that all the RAM is one pool, which is the opposite of
when you have discreet graphics.

For apple silicon those screens you're pushing is directly using your RAM. So
you better have 32 GB to a better if you're trying tondo heavy lifting.

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Mk82

@Trolly "Not sure what colorspace has to do with resolution."

Not the resolution, but the argument "pointless to shoot X megapixels, because I
can't really use so much".

The same is with the colors, sharpening, dynamic range, noise etc.
People argue about X being better than Y or Z. And they do it out of the
context.

It doesn't matter what so ever that how much something is better in the file out
of the camera.

Only thing that matters, is the final image!

The 135 format raise to popularity for one thing only, cheap pocket cameras.
Fixed focal length, fixed aperture, integrated flash.

The amount of photos taken and prints made are almost all from those cameras! I
don't have statics, but I would guess it is 90% of the photos were from those
cameras. Just like it is today!

~ 92,5 % of photos is taken with smartphone.

https://photutorial.com/photos-statistics/

The ILC never "drop down", it was nothing else than a icehockey peak because
people got them cheaply after film.

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Mk82

Continuing;

The arguments that minute detail in noise between base ISO and ISO 2-3 stops
higher are idiotic. Waste of breath and storage!

The same thing is with the colors. "This camera renders skintones better" or
something else. That is just stupid, because your final image is not viewed by
the display you have, by the print you have. It is viewed by hundreds of
different displays that repeat colors completely differently! It can be printed
on various different papers, that are being watched in the hundreds of different
lighting environments that all change radically how the colors are perceived.

You need to get the colors about right, like +/- 400 kelvin and you are fine.
5000 vs 4550 is difference that majority can't see unless they look side by side
the duplicates.
4760 vs 5880 is obvious difference that you can already see "that is too warm"
by just looking something white.

Color space is same. 8bit is more than enough for 98% of the cases.

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Mk82

Is there more tonality in the 10bit or 12 bit vs 8 bit? Yes.... but you don't
really see that difference unless it is something very obvious and big
difference, like a blue sky gradient change. But if you know couple tricks, you
can avoid all that, like adding noise to the photo and it will make image
looking person perceive the gradient smooth, instead in steps.

But that doesn't change the fact that one doing careful job with colors and all,
when the viewer will look it uncalibrated display that has gamma settings what
ever, and they sit in a completely differently lit room with a different
background behind the image/display!

That is one thing that people don't get at all, that color calibration is done
in color calibrated room, that is lit with color calibrated lights and it only
matter in that.

The whole argument points about "X renders skin tones too red" is fallacy.
Just like "ISO 200 is better than 800" is a fallacy.
50 Mpix is better than 10 Mpix is fallacy as well!

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Trolly

@MK82 Thanks for writing. I think I agreed with most things. I made a black and
white landscape print from a favorite place of mine. 1x1 meters from 16 image
stitch from my Sigma foveon camera. Looking at the print it feels like being at
the place thanks to the fine detail. I used a crappy paper so contrast is low,
yet this powerful effect.
I probably can't get the same effect with an 8K monitor, too few pixels.

So unless the Subject is really worth a large print, shooting at high resolution
is just a waste.

Never calibrated any of my equipment, sticking to 8 bit sRGB. My "calibration"
is testprint in small scale, adjust levels before large print. Guess I will
continue using my 2K display for editing and enjoying usual pictures.

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Bumblebees

@mk82 You wrote:
"But that doesn't change the fact that one doing careful job with colors and
all, when the viewer will look it uncalibrated display that has gamma settings
what ever, and they sit in a completely differently lit room with a different
background behind the image/display!

That is one thing that people don't get, that color calibration is done in color
calibrated room, that is lit with color calibrated lights and it only matter in
that."

You think that you think right, but you are wrong. There is standards out there.
As sRGB, DCI P3 etc. Also webbrowsers ability is to detect profiles. If you sit
with an calibrated monitor in an calbrited environment you are alwas sure that
what you see is right. So, you dont need to worry that your material can be
totally wrong at the viewers side. If you however have an uncalibrated monitor
e.g. chrusing the blacks. You will edit wrong, and when your customer look at
the pic on his monitor he will get an ugly bluish picture.

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Mk82

@Bumblebees:

"If you sit with an calibrated monitor in an calbrited environment you are alwas
sure that what you see is right."

I have color calibrated displays, the whole room, the lighting, everything all
the way to the wall/ceiling paints, floor material, to desk color... Everything.

Do you understand that concept?

Good, now only thing that is "right" is the printers in the next room. And those
results vary based the ink and paper and all. Those devices requires periodic
calibration when things changes.

You think that you are right, but you are totally wrong. I know all those
standards what you are trying to feed to me.

But what you do not understand, is that on the moment the material leaves your
calibrated display, or your calibrated print, it is different when it is in any
other condition.

This is why you can not calibrate your laptop indoors, and then move to
different room with different lighting. You see incorrectly colors.
Same is with prints, indoors, outdoor...

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Mk82

...when ever you move the print around, the colors change.
You can think that you are smart and clever by claiming that once you have done
the colors in color calibrated environment that it is exactly what the customer
gets.

WRONG!

You don't even understand the concept of colors and lighting.

Go to your closest professional fabric store, or just a clothing store, and ask
a experienced personnel to help you to choose a color, they know that every
color change their look depending the lighting where you wear it. Is it outside
at sunset, or middle of day, or is it indoors under candle light or fluorescent
light etc.

You can go to a paint shop and ask a person to find you a color for your wall,
or to your furniture, they will tell exactly the same thing, colors change by
the light you are looking them. That is why they have these special lights in
small lockers to you check the color cards under different lights as they change
dramatically.

Even a different material change color.

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Mk82

So if you paint something on a soft wood, and you look at it on the daylight, it
can be different than if you look it under artificial light in daylight color
temperature, because the wood as in material makes the same color change its
properties than on paper.

When you take your iphone to outdoors to indoors, you place it on black table,
or red table or white table, you see the colors totally differently.

Do you know why the lightroom, photoshop etc are all using a neutral color
palettes in their interface? Because the colors next to your photo will affect
how you see the colors. You can think it is absurd, but that is why you have
special color calibrated rooms so you don't get any influence of any other color
than the work itself.

Do you know what happens if you try to adjust colors right in your photo, in a
room that has red walls around you?
You will see your image red color too weak, and you oversaturate red channel to
compensate.
Now you go to outdoors, and it looks ugly..

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Mk82

Have you ever worked in the women perfume department in the general stores?
Actually, have you just walked through those departments?

Once you step from outside to that space, you will be astounded by the wall of
all kind scents, but in a few seconds you don't anymore smell anything. It is
all as one strong scent with slight savor. You need to stick your nose close to
specific perfume to get a scent of it, but quickly you can't even smell that.

That is why you have there a coffee beans. The coffee beans is old trick to
reset your olfactory receptors. You take a deep breath through nose a can full
of coffee beans and you can smell the different scents again, but it last again
just a moment until you are back to problem.

There is as well another fact that many doesn't realize, the exact same perfume
has different scent depending person skin it is put on. That is why you test the
perfume on your skin, not to cloth or from container, as the great scent can
turn awful on your skin...

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Mk82

That is why there is this common thing among those ladies who use perfumes "This
smells good on you", as they learn what is good perfume for them, just like they
do find what colors, styles and everything fits to them. As every person is
different. It is about make-up, colors... everything. Why you can't just stamp
one thing to everyone, as it doesn't fit to everyone.

The same thing is with the colors, you can't even visually judge properly shades
of grey if there are visual distractions of colors and shadows.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/Checker_shadow_illusion.svg/1200px-Checker_shadow_illusion.svg.png

That is easiest and simple example, but that effect is on everything.
Do you remember the "Blue dress or golden dress" thing in social media 8 years
back? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dress
So simple thing, and people can't even agree with obvious!
If you try to do a accurate and color critical work, you need to control
everything from start to end.

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Bumblebees

@mk82 so. many words. So you mean that an having an calibrated monitor is use
ess?

The eight year old picture is an exeptional way to describe why, when you work
with your pictures, need to sit and work with the pictures on an calibrated
screen. Your brain will play tricks with you. There is no absolute pitch when it
comes to pictures. Hence the importance to be able to trust your screen, working
in an calibrated environment.

If you do that you can be sure that you are sure what you see. If you then save
it with the right profile, you have done what you can. It will be unpacked as
good as possible. You can never know what envrionment the pictures are viewed
in. But if you shoot pictures fro a web shop the pictures will most likely be
viewed through a webbrowser = srgb.

If you shoot a movie for linear tv or youtube its BT709.

If you do a print, adobe rgb and softprint or download the right icc profile to
the monitor.

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Mk82

"So you mean that an having an calibrated monitor is useless? "

If you would have read what was written, you would know the answer for that. But
you didn't, and then you try to be a smart by trying to make an bipolar question
for a complex equitation question.

You are talking trash with the standards, because you don't understand that what
you are talking about.

We are not talking about standards, we are talking about perceived colors, that
standards do not factor in at all.

Because you are such person that don't know how to read, or is such rude person
that is unwilling to listen when things is explained to you, I don't waste time
to repeat it to you Nth time how wrong you are.

Your argument is that white is white because it is in your chosen standard, but
you just don't understand that white is not white when it is viewed under
different lighting. And same thing is with all the colors, regardless what
standard you try to apply to it.

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Bumblebees

Its not ”my” choosen standard, its ICC standards.

Of course different lighting changes the behaviour of the colours wave lengths
bounces back to you - whats new?

When you work with a picture, it is still important that you work in a/ and
saves the pictures with a profile. Otherwise the other monitor, printer etc
doesnt know how to un pack it.

Imagine you beeing a music producer making music.
You dont know if your audience is tone def or the different type of headphones
they use. Still you will try to produce best possible music quality coming from
tuned iinstruments - dont you?

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Mk82

Why you now disagree with yourself?

Your mentioned standards don't matter, only final image matters.

Your standard bragging is nothing else than specific device capability, not the
final image. And if you would read, you would understand it doesn't matter.

I am not going repeat myself and waste time when you don't even want to accept
the facts.

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Show more replies (19)   Reply
sutchi

When I was at school kids would get in trouble for copying.

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Julian

I wonder if Apple are using a Samsung panel, as Samsung are one of the top panel
manufacturers... Then its a case of exactly who is copying who? First to market
does not always mean originator.

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sutchi

It's not about using parts, they have copied the design.

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Julian

Its entirely possible this is a technology licensing thing, and so many shared
parts - which then partially includes the design. If thats not the case, then
you may also be correct, but too early to say I think, the second Apple place a
lawsuit - thats when you know for sure...

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Djehuty

So they copied a flat rectangular shape that looks like 99% of monitors on the
market. If it was infringing anything, Apple would have sued.

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Foskito

It is a shame Apple discontinued the 5K 27” iMac which is the one I have. Now if
I want to upgrade I have to buy a monitor and a Mac mini and pay much more for
an all-in-one solution. I don't want to downgrade to a 24” iMac regardless of
how nice they look.

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tvstaff

I recently purchased the Apple 5K Studio Monitor and I'm having a lot of
calibration issues that "Apple is aware of".

There are known bugs with not being able to adjust brightness properly during
calibration using advanced white point references in Photographer P3-D65 and
then again after calibration. This is apparent to Apple and they admit it during
tech support. They claim a firmware fix was distributed but if you use x-rite i1
Pro Profile you'll see the glitch is still there. I'm going on my 3rd 2nd level
meeting with Apple to fix it. Deleting software, firmware and OS are useless but
procs I had to follow. The torture continues. Some offer bandaid fixes... That's
not what I paid for. Who ever thought that disabled brightness controls would be
acceptable to professionals???

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marc petzold

Well, Apple is much about style & design...not always about efficiency.

Good light.

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mujana

@tvstaff.
(I don’t have the Studio Display)
Do you mean impossible to set the brightness accurately (small brightness
steps), like with the 27” iMac? Or not possible to set brightness at all during
“calibration “?

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tvstaff

@mujana Correct Not during calibration or after in Photographer P3-D65

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mujana

@tvstaff. Crazy. On iMac it's at least possible to set the brightness in some
way. Not accurately and in small steps, but still. Wonder why this isn' t
possible with Studio Display.

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Gkuzu

Samsung was already producing Apple's monitor panels, right? Samsung also
produced iPhone screens.

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QuietOC

The 5k iMacs have only used LG panels.

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sportyaccordy

All I want is a ~40" 8K monitor for under $1000.

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Notwitholding

You’re blessed. I can’t tell 5k from 4k at working distance.

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Jagganatha

still the wrong shape for photographers. accept how much screen we are losing
with our 3:2 35mm format photographs, manufacturers and wise up that it is far
better to make it our shape rather than gamers 16:9 if you want to secure a need
for your product. It is far better IMHO to have black bars above and below for
cinema's endlessly changing formats than to deprive everybody of a bigger
visible area for our workstations, & I await a 40" 8K option which is what we
are going to need to maintain the same pixel density as 5K gives you on a 27"
screen. I get fed up as hardly anyone takes pictures in 16:9. But then I live on
a logical planet, sorry.

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SHood

I am still using a 10 year old Dell 24” 16:10 IPS monitor for this reason. A new
27” screen will just give me the height I already have. Some day I will need to
move on but will hold out for as long as possible

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ewelch

Considering I use my monitor to process photos, I'm not really all that bothered
by the shape. I agree the 35mm frame's proportion is ideal, I don't use my
monitor as a slideshow presentation tool. So I need room for panels and feedback
and toobars to get the job done of processing my photos. So a specific
proportion is not a big deal.

I don't necessarily watch movies on it - Youtube yes. But when I watch 4K
videos, I watch on my LG TV.

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Djehuty

Maybe its not designed for photographers and still isn't a pro grading monitor.

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Jagganatha

if your monitor is colour-correct enough you are better using it as a slideshow
tool than your TV, because all anti-glare and matt surfaces nullify contrast and
dynamic range. I have a good 4K neoQled 32" Samsung as well as an old 5k iMac.
The Samsungs a great monitor, colour-correct, loads of possible adjustments,
works with older Macs, no complaints, BUT it is hopelessly flat and dim compared
to an 18,3 iMac from 2017. I WANT an 8K 40" display, but nobody makes them yet
except as TVs all of them of course having the same problems as the neoQled
monitor becausde they are not panels bonded to glass, like an old iMac, so
unless this newbie apes the glass-fronted physical structure of a 5K IPS iMac
screen, it is a pointless product IMHO. And you can get a 5K iMac for £400 now,
not the £1500 Apple demand for the same Scream!! (not a misprint)

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Robert Morris

Local dimming? HDR without it is sub-par!

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thx1138

HDR600 shows this doesn't have micro-leds for local dimming. Probably has 32
dimming zones at most and the price also reflects this if it's targeting that
sub $2K area. High quality micro-led panels are much more expensive and they
offer HDR1000/HDR10+

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Notwitholding

Vaporware. No price, no release date.
Thanks.

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gonzalu

Samsung actually does have a reputation for releasing stuff. And Vegas January
is here... so...

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Notwitholding

I hope so. But right now it’s hype material…

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ViralTrendsToday

Price?

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M Lammerse

you get the apple looks...for the price of a pear...

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gonzalu

...a peach is tastier :P

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3 months agopermalink
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ViralTrendsToday

HAHAHAHA, so true. Honestly for value there's no better than Asus sub 4k (
coming from Apple and Dell monitors ) but I guess if you are on a single monitor
system theses expensive thingies may be an ok choice BUT keep in mind qled
panels coming out this year .

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Indohydra

Another possible topic to cover: led screens for wall photographic display. How
should you be shooting to optimize for wall display on one of these screens?

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2
3 months agopermalink
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photographytragic

When HDR came in, the biggest "divide" for decades emerged. (even to the media
specs, meaning ideally you should have your final images all in 2 formats)
While they were busy creating the "haves and have nots", maybe they should also
have looked ahead and mandated all HDR displays should be square format :)

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3 months agopermalink
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borat21

if it's half the price and has 120 hz, I'm in :D

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5
3 months agopermalink
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janbanan

For photo and video 120hz is not thing? Color accuracy is more important and
that it can handle

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18
3 months agopermalink
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Djehuty

This isn't a gaming forum bruh.

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5
3 months agopermalink
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Bobby V

There is more to 120HZ than gaming. Reduce screen tearing and better motion
handling in video editing, smoother Wacom pen retouching, etc. Sheesh, why are
people so keen to jump on others...that's so 2022.

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3
3 months ago*permalink
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borat21

120 hz and color accuracy is easy to accomplish, companies are just lazy to try
hard enough

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3 months agopermalink
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JochenIs

120hz is not only for gaming its better for scrolling pages. Not necessary but
nice to have.

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1
3 months agopermalink
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janbanan

Bobby: no video real editors use 120hz, maybe some YouTubers that uses 32 float
for audio recording

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Jon555

It's just a pity YouTube has stopped supporting 5k content...

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3 months agopermalink
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Light Pilgrim

It has one big problem that is not easy to solve. It has Samsung logo on it

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5
3 months agopermalink
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Umutt

You can put a tape on it.

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2
3 months agopermalink
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Charlie Jin

These days, young people buy it because it has Samsung Logo…

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2
3 months agopermalink
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Notwitholding

I’m more concerned whether it has some Samsung “home alliance” electronics.

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3 months agopermalink
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tcphoto1

Great, I have an old Apple Display that needs to be retired. Apple has forgotten
those that want a +/- $1000 display and Samsung appears to be stepping up. All I
need is an updated MBP and I'll place my order.

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5
3 months agopermalink
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ecka84

Same old same old .. 27" is way too small for 5K and the 32" is not big enough.

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7
3 months agopermalink
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Notwitholding

Yup.

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3 months agopermalink
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paolop23

entirely depends on viewing distance,
As i get quite close sometimes 4K is actually at the limit of what i'd like to
use on a 27" monitor

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3 months agopermalink
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ecka84

Are you sure that you can actually see the whole 4K resolution on a 27" monitor?
Perhaps it is closer to 2.5K? Isn't the whole point of such tiny "Retina" pixels
to not see them as well as the whole amount of information they carry? Sounds
like a self-defeating gimmick. I mean, a huge chunk of information is being
wasted. Can you tell the difference between 27" 5K and 27"4K in a blind test?
What about 27" 3K? I think that 40"(ish) 4K looks amazing. No scaling required
and I don't need to get close to see everything. It hangs nicely on the wall
above my desk, so it doesn't even take extra space on the surface.

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3 months agopermalink
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paolop23

"Can you tell the difference between 27" 5K and 27"4K in a blind test?"
Thats a good quesion, but again it will depend on viewing distance.
Maybe without 20/20 vision 4K+ is a waste, but i personally enjoy looking at
photos on high resolution displays very much, because it looks so lifelike.
Also i enjoy Youtube photography content where if i pause at 4k i get 8MP
images, which is much more enjoyable than in 1080p(2MP).

Theres also one big advantage of higher resolution displays that i cherish every
day and that is the ability to make screenshots and retain a good quality image.
On 1080p PC-monitors, i need to go fullscreen to get a decent screenshot while
on 4K i can do the same from just a small window.

Its similar with smartphones. The 1440p wide resolution of the S7 was good
enough for screenshotting readable articles from apps/webpages, the 1080p of my
current S22 is often times not enough.

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3 months ago*permalink
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ecka84

I enjoy looking at photos on high resolution displays too. I'm just saying that
a 27" monitor can't possibly show you all the detail of a high resolution image.
You just can't see those tiny "Retina" pixels and the data they represent. To
see everything, there must be a certain comfortable distance, the line between
seeing the pixels and not seeing the pixels. You don't have it with 27" 5K or
4K. It doesn't exist.

There's no connection between screen quality and screenshot quality. It's a
matter of magnification, which is basically the same on 27" 4K/5K and 40" 4K/5K.
However, with 27" UHD you are forced to use scaling to see stuff comfortably.
You just can't see the whole picture. That's why so many photography videos show
you 200% crops or 300% crops and higher magnifications, because otherwise it
would be impossible to see stuff on "Retina" displays, and it's always ugly when
it's over 100%. Native resolution wins every time, except when you can't see it
on your "Retina".

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3 months agopermalink
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paolop23

i dont really understand what your point is, i fear were not on the same page...
I'm 100% confident that with my typical viewing distances i would pick the 4K
monitor in a 27" blind test between 3840p (4K UHD) vs 1440p (QHD) vs 1080p(HD).
Because that is actually what i did when i bought my 27" 4K monitor several
years ago. Unsure about 4K vs 5K, but i think its always better to have an
excess of pixelss, since theres advantages like having better resolution
screenshots on smaller displays.

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3 months ago*permalink
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ecka84

Yeah, you would pick the 4K (2160p) on 27" (163PPI), because you can see like 3K
(1600p)(122PPI) on it, which is a bit more than 2.5K (1440p)(109PPI) and 1080p
(2K) is clearly too low-res for 27" (81PPI). You need at least 90PPI for quality
picture and the sweet spot is around 120PPI (give or take). It is measurable,
it's not an opinion. While the 27" 5K gives you 217PPI, which is a huge waste.

Screenshot resolution depends on the original content resolution that you are
watching, not the monitor. If you blow up a 640x480 clip at full screen, the
screenshot will not be 4K quality. Plus, you can run higher resolution content
than your screen resolution. It's called DSR (Dynamic Super Resolution) (or RSR
for Radeon Super Resolution) and you can turn it ON in your computer graphics
settings. Basically, you can make 4K screenshots while using a 1080p monitor.

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3 months agopermalink
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paolop23

you can still get close enough to a 27" 5K monitor so that the extra pixels
matter, i do it regulary, others might not. The way i look at photos on my 4K
monitor is much like i look at 300dpi prints, i get close..
I know that theres rule of thumbs for how far away from a screen you should sit
(diagonal/0.84), i just don't find this rule applies to how i use my monitors.
I just played a 4k youtube-video on my HD monitor and the screenshot turned out
1920x1080p... so those features you talk about seem exotic. Also they dont apply
to phones, screenshotting text from a 1080p wide screen vs 1440p wide screen is
a big disadvantage for my everyday usecases.

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3 months ago*permalink
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ecka84

It has been tested over and over again ... and the results were the same.
Basically, 90-140PPI is what we need. Less than 90PPI is bad. More than 140PPI
is overkill and a waste. 120PPI is around perfect for comfortable use. And you
can run whatever Super Resolution mode to get what you want. The smallest size
that makes any sense for 4K resolution is 32". But you still need scaling for
it.

300DPI print is overkill for quality images. It is meant for printing mediocre
quality snapshots made with consumer cameras and phones. There's nothing magical
about 300DPI, other than hiding the ugly mess at pixel level. You can take
whatever low quality image and "purify" it by making it smaller. Which is
exactly what high PPI monitors do. I would rather have an ultra-high-def 100DPI
A0 print, than a tiny 300DPI A4.

All you are saying is that you see just as much detail on both 27" 4K and 32" 4K
(and even 40" 4K monitors). And that's just not true. Try comparing them side by
side. Size matters.

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3 months agopermalink
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paolop23

is viewing distance not a "concept" you are familiar with (since you did not
mention it once)?
Do we not agree on the fact that stitting far away from a big, but low ppi
screen is essentially the same thing as holding a small, but high ppi screen
right infront of your face?
Apply this to 4K on 32" vs 27" and the only conclusion can be that you can 100%
get the same result, it entirely depends on viewing distance. The way i use
displays may differ from others (the majority), but i would definetly consider
27" 5K (not sure about 6 or 8K).
As a side note: If you can ever get your hand on a large format contact print i
recommend inspecting it very closely, since its the finest print quality i've
ever seen, easily close to 600dpi. I would pay alot of money to get digital
prints made with that kind of fidelity (even real 300dpi is hard to come by),
because i personally do enjoy it (yes you might need a loupe).

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3 months ago*permalink
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ecka84

Don't you know what a "working distance" is? It's not a TV, it's a monitor.

"sitting far away from a big, but low ppi screen is essentially the same thing
as holding a small, but high ppi screen right infront of your face"
- Yeah, exactly right, you can't see the whole picture in both cases. Which is
the point.

"Apply this to 4K on 32" vs 27" .."
- Sure. The 32" 4K monitor can show you the whole picture within its working
distance. Not the most comfortable distance, but it's there. While the 27" 4K
can't do that. It's like saying - "you need to get closer to see bacteria" - it
doesn't work in practice.

Ultra-high-def images do not require 600dpi or even 300dpi to look good. Lower
quality images do, to compensate for the lack of fine detail at close distance.
Basically, image size reduction makes its data to noise ratio go up, while
reducing the overall amount of data. And that's not the trade we want from
expensive quality screens. You want a 600dpi snapshot? Fine. It's your choice.

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3 months agopermalink
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JKP

But why so tiny...

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12
3 months agopermalink
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Leicalika

that's what sh.....forgetit

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2
3 months agopermalink
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ewelch

The older I get, the less I want to look too far to the left or right. So two 27
inch monitors is about has wide as I want to go. The pixel density at 27 inches
makes 5K look spectacular.

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4
3 months agopermalink
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ecka84

Except that you can't see 5K on 27".

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3 months agopermalink
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Mann5

ecka84 : You have just understood the principle of "retina" screens.
The point is that you can't distinguish the pixels.
Apple's roadmap is to have a pixel below the human limit of one minute of arc
(or about 0.017 degrees) at viewing distance.
I use my screen at about 50 cm, by simple trigonometric calculation I can
calculate that I can distinguish a pixel of 0.1484 mm.
A 5K screen at 27" represents a pixel of 0.1167mm, so I can't see it
(success)!!!
A 4K screen at 27" represents a pixel of 0.1557mm, I can make it out (bad).

If you are a graphic arts professional and can't see the difference, good for
you

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3 months agopermalink
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Station Grey

I'm delighted there's finally another 27"/5k monitor around. I'm sure I'm not
alone in desperately wanting one (to replace an old 5k iMac) but not being
prepared to pay the price Apple want for something a little average.

Samsung will need to price it well though. If it's over a grand I don't think
I'll bother, and much less would be welcome.

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11
3 months agopermalink
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Gannon Burgett

@Station: I think $1199 would be a reasonable price. That's $400 less than
Apple's glossy option and $100 less than LG's UltraFine 5K.

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3 months agopermalink
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Richmondthefish

Depends how much over a grand. I mean if it has physical buttons(which Apple
doesn't) I would buy just to get that feature as the idea of a monitor without
buttons just stupid for a variety of reasons relying on the OS to make
adjustments. If I want to repurpose this monitor 15 years down the road on a
Windows/Linux build I want buttons obviously.

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3
3 months agopermalink
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panther fan

@Gannon Burgett

The window of opportunity for that monitor would be small.

LG just introduced a 27-inch - 2560x1440 - OLED for 999$. It will be a matter of
months until there is a 4k OLED at that size and price. And then nobody will be
interested in an LCD that doesn't even make use of the last advantage that LCDs
have, which is high brightness.

They better price it aggressively below 1000$

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2
3 months agopermalink
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ewelch

The Studio Display is anything but average. (Who cares about a webcam. it's
perfectly adequate for the job.) Once they fixed the issue with the screen going
blank and the audio was working fine with several firmware updates, it's a
fabulous monitor. (I was a photo editor for 22 years, doing high-end color
correction for print, so I do know a bit about this stuff.)

That being said, I am going to get one of these to match it.

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3
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Notwitholding

Not interested in Oleds for computer work. They suffer from burn in, and my
flying toasters license is 35 years expired.

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1
3 months agopermalink
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Station Grey

@ewelch That's why I said 'a little' average :)

The webcam is adequate, yes, but when you're paying top dollar and more then you
expect decent specs.

A hi-fi is not a vital part of a car, but if I was paying 500k for the car I'd
still expect a damned good one and not something 'adequate'.

But to add to that, who cares about the webcam? These days, I'd say almost
everyone. I use my Mac for photography, sure, but also for hours of video calls
every day as part of my day job.

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Spomeniks

It's great to see more competitors in this space! 5K at 27" is a dream to live
with and it looks like Samsung's got a lot going for it here. The two things
seemingly not known yet, which will be the make or break items, are the question
of screen brightness and pricing

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9
3 months agopermalink
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Gannon Burgett

@Spomeniks: and local dimming details. Nothing mentioned about that yet.

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Israel Bracha

The only feature that make the studio display standout is the 5k that’s why
Apple made the screen so featureless and expensive, i sure the next Apple
display will be much better value! Thank you Samsung!

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2
3 months agopermalink
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photoaddict

It's not the same as Apple Studio Display XDR though.

An XDR display is what you'd want for true HDR video/image quality. This is why
it costs at least $5K but it will last for a decade considering it gives you a
glimpse to what future displays will look like.

The alternative is iPad Pro 12.9" - it is XDR too and it's much cheaper but the
software limitation is the issue. Future updates for the HDR workflow will be
available from what I understand.

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1
3 months agopermalink
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The Point and Shoot Pro

They stated studio display. Not the xdr display. Two different monitors.

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6
3 months agopermalink
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panther fan

That's why they said it competes with the studio display and not the studio
display xdr

The studio display XDR is in this weird space. It cannot compete with OLED or
dual-layer reference monitors, but for a LCD display that competes with other
HDR LCDs it has weirdly few dimming zones and is priced too high.

If rumors are true I would wait on buying an XDR. Apple is coming out with at
least an updated version this year, if not with a new OLED display based on the
two stack technology they and Samsung have been working on. WHich would a real
step up

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5
3 months agopermalink
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Terrible Photographer

@photoaddict Tell me you've never seen a reference monitor without telling me
you've never seen a reference monitor.

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1
3 months ago*permalink
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Spomeniks

@pantherfan no kidding - the way Apple chose to market the XDR was kinda odd,
because they brought up reference displays but obviously their monitor is NOT
equivalent to a reference display. It seems like they're selling well enough
though, but it kind of seems like the real world target market has been "mid
level videographers with $6000 burning a hole in their pocket"

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5
3 months agopermalink
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The Point and Shoot Pro

Apple knew exactly who they were marketing to. Not who you think. It's the
person who thinks apple stuff is best above all else

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1
3 months agopermalink
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jaberg

To be pedantic, for the purposes of avoiding confusion, Apple makes the 27"/5K
Studio Display and the 32"/6K Pro Display XDR.

There is no Studio Display XDR.

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3 months agopermalink
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ewelch

Apple stuff being best above all else is a pretty low bar to exceed, with few
exceptions. The XDR is better than anything in its price range, considering
professionals in the field acknowledge it is the best thing you can get that
costs less than your basic run-of-the-mill $40K reference monitor.

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2
3 months agopermalink
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Notwitholding

I’ll be happy to buy peripherals from any other company that shows support and
longevity such as apple. I’ve been burnt by Samsung, LG, Dell and HP already.
Maybe asus can do it, but I have my doubts.

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1
3 months agopermalink
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gaseouscreature

LG's UltraFine 5K - I'm thrilled with mine for photography.

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3 months agopermalink
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panther fan

@ewelch

Who exactly said that? The professional movie studios all chose the LG OLED
monitors with the JOLED panel, which is cheaper. Prime example might be Disney
with all it's studios like Marvel, Pixar, etc...

And if you really want LCD tech there is also heavy competition

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3 months ago*permalink
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The Point and Shoot Pro

@notwithholding, All of the above support their computers much longer than apple
already. I have a 2007 acer notebook that is running windows 10 22H2 right now.
My 2007 apple macbook white is a paperweight that cannot even access the
internet.

Apple are even starting to fall behind in support of older iOS devices now. They
used to support them for a long time, but no more. 4 years is all you are going
to get from apple for any device support. Google gives 4 and Samsung is giving 5
years of support on mobile.

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3 months agopermalink
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Notwitholding

I've had very different experiences.

My Windows machines and LG/Samsung screens dropped dead after 2-3 years. Old
android phones don't get updated. Samsung kicked my old Note 6 months after I
bought it, and I got no updates. Google gave me 3 years:

"Google Pixel 6 and Google Pixel 6 Pro With Tensor, like the 6a, Google promises
three years of OS updates and five years of security updates." (since the
product is introduced).

On the other hand, my now turning 7 years old iMac works great. Spins off its
fans on occasion but still chugs along just fine running Resolve.

Btw, iOS:

"Apple will support iPhones (and all devices it makes) for seven years from the
last time it sold that particular model" (not when it was first introduced, re:
Google).

I'm simply done with Windows/Android.

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1
3 months ago*permalink
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panther fan

@Notwitholding

Well there the trouble already starts. Is your iMac a 2017 or 2016 model?
Because the new MacOS Ventura only works on 2017 and up. 2018 on the Mac mini
and some MacBooks.
If you are 2017 you still get Ventura but you can bet no version after that.

And on MacOS Software regularly requires an up to date operating system which
only has relatively short support. There is a reason there is a giant Linux
community for old macs.

Windows versions are supported for about a decade each. And even then jumping to
a new versions is possible in most cases.

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1
3 months agopermalink
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The Point and Shoot Pro

Furthermore, iOS does not promise 7 years of updates. They gave ONE phone 7
years of updates (the iPhone 6s). Take the Xr for example. only 4 years of
updates. It's not getting anything else. So, NO, Apple does not give out 7 years
of updates and support to every iOS device.

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cekbakalim

Options are always welcome!

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4
3 months agopermalink
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wcan

Nice that you can use your phone to calibrate, but how do they "calibrate the
calibrator" the phone that is used as a sensor?

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5
3 months agopermalink
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Gannon Burgett

@wcan: Yea, your mileage is definitely going to vary depending on a lot of
factors and the device you're using.

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5
3 months agopermalink
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panther fan

Maybe the phones that can be used are factory calibrated, just like cameras are.

The problem with displays is less that you cannot factory calibrate them, but
that they change over time. Which the sensors seems to do less (I don't know
why). So even if both are calibrated at the factory the phone can be the
calibrator for the screen while the screen burns in

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3 months agopermalink
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DelnT

It's likely the camera factory calibration on the phone is more accurate than
the monitor calibration tolerances so it can do the job. It's referred to as a
traceability ladder where you can trace each calibration devices accuracy to a
more accurate device until you reach the lab standard item that calibrates
everything.

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2
3 months agopermalink
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irax73

Sensor rarely degrades or shifts: each pixels either die (wear or laser), become
scratched, or contaminated (very hard with smart phone sensor that hides behind
lens), but they didn't shift universally in responses to light. It's just like
we usually didn't "calibrate" our camera sensor.

It is no way near perfect as even spectophotometers need to be calibrated, but
factory calibration of camera sensor will last much longer than any type of
display backlight technology calibration. I do not think there is a way to
calibrate phone camera sensor for the work, so Samsung better does their
calibration right.

However, I probably won't run into running a tvOS for my monitor and having a
specific proprietary and expensive peripheral for calibration. a Spyder 5/X will
be more accurate and way more universal than this, with X-rite stuff being more
professional.

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1
3 months agopermalink
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Notwitholding

I guess no one prints these days.

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Djehuty

Alot of things don't need to be accurate, they just need to be good enough,
monitors are probably one of them, they don't have to be super on point, they
just have to be in the ballpark. Nowadays factory calibration will last you
quite a while.

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1
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Leica M11 Monochrom sample gallery

We got a chance to shoot with Leica's latest black-and-white model. This is what
we came up with.

Apr 14, 202328sample gallery
DJI announces the Inspire 3 with a 45MP full-frame camera

Today DJI announced the Inspire 3, meant for TV and film production, but its
45MP full-frame camera could also prove useful for serious drone photographers.

Apr 13, 202373
Leica M11 Monochrom preview

Leica has announced a mono-only version of its M11 60MP manual focus
rangefinder. We've been taking a look at what it offers and what it's like to
shoot with.

Apr 13, 2023134preview
Leica releases Summilux-M 50mm F1.4 ASPH

Leica has announced a revised version of its Summilux-M 50mm F1.4 ASPH. The new
design is the same size as the 35mm F1.4 from 2022 and has changes include a
shorter minimum focus distance.

Apr 13, 202324
Ricoh announces Pentax K-3 Mark III Monochrome DSLR

Ricoh has announced a black and white variant of its Pentax K-3 III enthusiast
DSLR.

Apr 12, 2023352

Sony adds DCI 4K/24 and anamorphic support to FX3 and FX30

Sony has issued firmware updates to its FX3 and FX30 cinema cameras to add some
videographer-friendly features.

Apr 12, 202319
Sigma 17mm F4 DG DN Contemporary sample gallery

Sigma's 17mm F4 DN DG is a relatively compact wide-angle prime for full-frame
cameras (or a 25.5mm equiv. on APS-C models). We took the lens into the field to
see how it performs. See our new sample gallery for what we found.

Apr 12, 202333sample gallery
Most significant cameras of the DPReview era: Part 2

Part Two of our look back at the most significant cameras we covered brings us
from 2008 to the present (well, almost).

Apr 11, 2023295
Most significant cameras of the DPReview era: Part 1

This is the first of a two-part series, looking back at the cameras that got us
to where we are today (and a few that we just thought were interesting). This
first installment covers the years 1998-2006 and takes us from DPReview's first
review to the beginnings of live view.

Apr 10, 2023165
Nikon Nikkor Z 28mm F2.8 sample gallery

This full-frame 28mm F2.8 Nikkor lens is the sweet spot for size and focal
length on a full-frame body. See for yourself in this new sample gallery shot
with a production lens.

Apr 9, 202329sample gallery
Can't find a Fujifilm X100V? What are the alternatives?

The Fujifilm X100V is an incredibly popular camera – so popular that it's almost
impossible to buy one. Here are some alternative camera and lens options to
consider if you're looking for a compact, large sensor camera with a 35mm (or
similar) lens.

Apr 8, 2023305
DPReview closure: an update

An update from DPReview.com's general manager.

Apr 7, 2023761
DPReview by the numbers

Come along as we take a look back at the last 25-ish years and try to quantify
where we've been, what we learned and the impact we had as a publication.

Apr 7, 2023242
The state of the camera industry, according to the people who make cameras

During a recent trip to Japan, we met with executives from almost every major
camera and lens manufacturer. Find out how these leaders view the state of the
camera market and what trends they expect to shape the industry in the coming
years.

Apr 6, 2023375
Ricoh announces a standalone GR III Diary Edition

Previously only available as part of a bundle, the Ricoh GR III Diary Edition
can now be purchased on its own.

Apr 5, 2023128
DPReview March Madness - a champion is crowned

After 5 rounds and 40,000+ votes, we have a champ!

Apr 5, 2023103
Fujifilm X-T5 in-depth review

The Fujifilm X-T5 is the company's latest classically-styled APS-C mirrorless
camera. It gains the 40MP sensor and AF system from the X-H2 but in a body with
a more stills-focused slant. We've been putting it through its paces.

Apr 4, 2023667review
The F4 compromise

Are F4 zoom lenses just cheaper versions of F2.8 options or are they quality
glass at a reasonable price? Let's take a dive into the world of F4 zooms to see
what makes them a great option.




Apr 4, 2023286
Sigma announces 17mm F4 DG DN and 50mm F2 DG DN compact full-frame primes

Sigma has announced the launch of a 17mm F4 DG DN and a 50mm F2 DG DN as part of
its 'I Series' of compact, mid-priced lenses. Both lenses will be available for
Sony E and Leica L mounts.

Apr 3, 2023128
Sigma launches 23mm F1.4 DC DN for APS-C Sony E, Fujifilm X & Leica L-mounts

Sigma has announced a 23mm F1.4 DC DN as the fourth in its set of F1.4 prime
lenses for APS-C mirrorless cameras. The new lens will initially be available
for Sony E, Leica L and Fujifilm X-mount.

Apr 3, 202335
Sigma gives pricing for Nikon Z-mount F1.4 DC DN primes

Sigma has announced the prices of its promised 16mm, 30mm and 56mm F1.4 DC DN
lenses for Nikon Z-mount. All three lenses will be available in late April.

Apr 3, 2023106
Nikon 58mm F0.95 Noct Sample Gallery

It's big, it's manual focus and it's expensive, but how do the images look?

Apr 2, 2023140sample gallery
DPReview TV: Nikon 58mm F0.95 Noct Review!

We're Noct messing around with this review.

Apr 1, 2023192video
April Fools at DPReview - a look back

April Fools Day pranks and internet media go together like butter and toast. We
take a look back at some of our favorite gags.

Apr 1, 202395
A history of the test scene

DPReview's testing has changed throughout the site's history but one of its most
enduring features has been a still-life scene, used to compare cameras in a
repeatable manner. Richard Butler delved into his memory and the site's early
reviews to tell the broadly consistent story of an ever-changing scene.

Mar 31, 2023191
DxO PureRAW 3 review: Give Adobe's apps a much-needed boost with modern AI
algorithms

Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom impress in a lot of ways, but their noise
reduction lags the competition and their lens corrections lack a real-world
basis. DxO PureRAW 3 aims to come to their rescue without totally reinventing
your workflow!

Mar 31, 2023133review
Canon PowerShot Pro70 added to the studio scene

We tested Canon's $1500 enthusiast-targeted 1.57MP zoom compact and it raised
serious doubts about the credibility of the site's reviews. Or, at least, their
lack of clairvoyance.

Mar 30, 2023182
DPReview March Madness finals

This is it! 32 entered, 2 remain.

Mar 30, 202380
Sony ZV-E1 pre-production sample gallery

While it may not have a mechanical shutter, the ZV-E1 can still shoot photos.
Take a look at our full resolution images!

Mar 30, 202323sample gallery
Sony ZV-E1 preview

The Sony ZV-E1 is the company's latest vlogging-focused camera: a full-frame
mirrorless camera based the FX3/a7S III sensor, aimed at YouTubers and
'creators' looking to go pro.

Mar 29, 2023390
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