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URL:
https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-9y0-2019/1241496-9y0-cayenne-turbo-0w-40-oil-top-off-mobil-1-fs-vs-mobil-1-esp-vs...
Submission Tags: @phish_report
Submission: On June 22 via api from FI — Scanned from NL
Submission Tags: @phish_report
Submission: On June 22 via api from FI — Scanned from NL
Form analysis 12 forms found in the DOM
POST https://rennlist.com/forums/search.php?do=process
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<a class="button radius prefix text-bold">Threads</a>
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<p><a rel="nofollow" href="https://rennlist.com/forums/login.php?do=lostpw">Forgot your Password?</a></p>
<div class="gdpr smallfont"> By logging into your account, you agree to our <a href="https://www.internetbrands.com/ibterms/" target="_blank">Terms of Use</a> and
<a href="https://www.internetbrands.com/privacy/privacy-main.html" target="_blank">Privacy Policy</a>, and to the use of cookies as described therein. </div>
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</form>POST https://rennlist.com/forums/profile.php?do=dismissnotice
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for News and Forum Updates
</div>
<div class="navbar_notice swoop-skip swoop-skip" id="navbar_notice_99">
<center><a href="https://rennlist.com/forums/payments.php#shirt"><img src="https://staticssl.ibsrv.net/autocomm/Content/Rennlist/25thshirtbanner2.png"></a></center>
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</form>POST https://rennlist.com/forums/search.php?do=process
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</form>Name: threadadminform — POST https://rennlist.com/forums/postings.php?t=1241496&pollid=
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</form>POST https://rennlist.com/forums/search.php?do=process&searchthreadid=1241496
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</form>Name: threadsearchform — POST https://rennlist.com/forums/search.php?do=process&searchthreadid=1241496
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<img class="inlineimg" style="vertical-align: middle;" src="https://rennlist.com/forums/images/misc/progress.gif" alt="Posting Quick Reply - Please Wait" title="Posting Quick Reply - Please Wait"> <strong>Posting Quick Reply - Please
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<div class="right"><a href="https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-9y0-2019/1241496-9y0-cayenne-turbo-0w-40-oil-top-off-mobil-1-fs-vs-mobil-1-esp-vs-mobil-1-esp-x3.html#" class="close"><i class="far fa-minus-square fa-lg"></i></a></div>
<div><em class="text-bold">Quick Reply:</em> <span id="qr_threadtitle"> 9Y0 Cayenne Turbo 0W-40 oil top off; Mobil 1 FS vs Mobil 1 ESP vs Mobil 1 ESP X3?</span></div>
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</form>GET https://rennlist.com/forums/forumdisplay.php
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<option value="221" class="fjdpth1"> 991</option>
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<option value="273" class="fjdpth2"> DIY - 991 GTx</option>
<option value="230" class="fjdpth1"> 991 Turbo</option>
<option value="113" class="fjdpth1"> 997 Forum</option>
<option value="141" class="fjdpth1"> 997 GT2/GT3 Forum</option>
<option value="139" class="fjdpth1"> 997 Turbo Forum</option>
<option value="60" class="fjdpth1"> 996 Forum</option>
<option value="131" class="fjdpth2"> DIY - 996 (1998-2003)</option>
<option value="103" class="fjdpth1"> 996 GT2/GT3 Forum</option>
<option value="132" class="fjdpth2"> DIY - GT2 & GT3</option>
<option value="61" class="fjdpth1"> 996 Turbo Forum</option>
<option value="58" class="fjdpth1"> 993 Forum</option>
<option value="130" class="fjdpth2"> DIY - 993 (1995-1998)</option>
<option value="62" class="fjdpth1"> 993 Turbo Forum</option>
<option value="59" class="fjdpth1"> 964 Forum</option>
<option value="129" class="fjdpth2"> DIY - 964 (1989 - 1994 911)</option>
<option value="79" class="fjdpth1"> 964 Turbo Forum</option>
<option value="56" class="fjdpth1"> 911 Forum</option>
<option value="128" class="fjdpth2"> DIY - 911 (1968-1989)</option>
<option value="57" class="fjdpth1"> 911 Turbo (930) Forum</option>
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<option value="270" class="fjdpth2"> DIY - 987</option>
<option value="265" class="fjdpth2"> Spyder/Cayman R</option>
<option value="67" class="fjdpth1"> Boxster & Boxster S (986) Forum</option>
<option value="138" class="fjdpth2"> DIY - Boxster & Cayman DIY</option>
<option value="69" class="fjdpth1"> 928 Forum</option>
<option value="134" class="fjdpth2"> DIY - 928</option>
<option value="232" class="fjdpth1"> Macan</option>
<option value="272" class="fjdpth2"> DIY Macan</option>
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<option value="266" class="fjdpth2"> DIY - Cayenne</option>
<option value="242" class="fjdpth1"> Cayenne 958 - 2011-2018</option>
<option value="224" class="fjdpth2"> DIY - Cayenne</option>
<option value="77" class="fjdpth1"> Cayenne 955-957 2003-2010</option>
<option value="267" class="fjdpth2"> DIY - Cayenne (955/957)</option>
<option value="70" class="fjdpth1"> 924/931/944/951/968 Forum</option>
<option value="260" class="fjdpth2"> 924/931/944/951/968's For Sale</option>
<option value="133" class="fjdpth2"> DIY - 924/931/944/951/968</option>
<option value="71" class="fjdpth1"> 968 Forum</option>
<option value="78" class="fjdpth1"> 944 & 944S Forum</option>
<option value="72" class="fjdpth1"> 944 Turbo and Turbo-S Forum</option>
<option value="68" class="fjdpth1"> 924 and 931 Forum</option>
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<option value="271" class="fjdpth2"> DIY - Panamera</option>
<option value="112" class="fjdpth1"> Porsche Supercars Carrera GT, 918,960</option>
<option value="76" class="fjdpth1"> 912 Forum</option>
<option value="64" class="fjdpth1"> 914/914-6 Forum</option>
<option value="63" class="fjdpth1"> 356 Forum</option>
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<option value="253" class="fjdpth2"> 944 Cup/Spec944</option>
<option value="263" class="fjdpth2"> E/SIM Racing</option>
<option value="233" class="fjdpth2"> Data Acquisition and Analysis for Racing and DE</option>
<option value="239" class="fjdpth2"> Trucks and Trailers</option>
<option value="151" class="fjdpth1"> Porsche Cup Cars</option>
<option value="262" class="fjdpth2"> GT4 Clubsport</option>
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<option value="66" class="fjdpth1"> Performance Modifications Forum</option>
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<option value="87" class="fjdpth1"> Dakar, Safari, Rally & Off-Roading</option>
<option value="48" class="fjdpth0"> General Discussion Forums</option>
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<option value="216" class="fjdpth1"> Audio and Video Forum</option>
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<option value="146" class="fjdpth1"> "HEY, WAIT FOR ME" Racing Forum</option>
<option value="226" class="fjdpth1"> Porsche Memorabilia</option>
<option value="171" class="fjdpth1"> Jobs Wanted - Help Needed</option>
<option value="94" class="fjdpth0"> Rennlist Regional Forums (Regional Events, Discussions, Announcements, Etc.)</option>
<option value="215" class="fjdpth1"> Events</option>
<option value="101" class="fjdpth1"> Region Finder</option>
<option value="148" class="fjdpth1"> Rennlist Region Florida</option>
<option value="95" class="fjdpth1"> East US Rennlist Region</option>
<option value="150" class="fjdpth2"> New England Region - MA, ME, NH, CT, RI & VT</option>
<option value="96" class="fjdpth1"> Central US Rennlist Region</option>
<option value="97" class="fjdpth1"> West US Rennlist Region</option>
<option value="102" class="fjdpth1"> Rennlist United Kingdom</option>
<option value="99" class="fjdpth1"> Rennlist Europe</option>
<option value="98" class="fjdpth1"> Rennlist Canada</option>
<option value="200" class="fjdpth2"> Rennlist Canada classifieds</option>
<option value="154" class="fjdpth2"> Rennsport Forum - English and Francais</option>
<option value="153" class="fjdpth2"> Sandor Region (BC / Alberta / Sask / Yukon & NWT)</option>
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<option value="105" class="fjdpth1"> Rennlist Africa & Middle East</option>
<option value="157" class="fjdpth0"> International Forums</option>
<option value="164" class="fjdpth1"> Norsk</option>
<option value="158" class="fjdpth1"> Deutsch</option>
<option value="159" class="fjdpth1"> Español</option>
<option value="160" class="fjdpth1"> Français</option>
<option value="161" class="fjdpth1"> Italiano</option>
<option value="162" class="fjdpth1"> 日本語 (Japanese)</option>
<option value="163" class="fjdpth1"> Nederlands</option>
<option value="165" class="fjdpth1"> Svenska</option>
<option value="127" class="fjdpth0"> Marketplace Archive</option>
<option value="135" class="fjdpth1"> DIY Submission Forum</option>
<option value="140" class="fjdpth1"> General DIY Forum</option>
<option value="217" class="fjdpth1"> Parts Marketplace - Old</option>
<option value="218" class="fjdpth1"> Vehicle Marketplace - Old</option>
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</form>GET https://rennlist.com/forums/
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<div class="iblock">
<input type="number" name="page" min="1" placeholder="Go to Page..." style="max-width: 9rem;">
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<div class="iblock">
<input type="submit" class="button primary radius" value="Go">
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</form>Text Content
* Log In
* Register
*
*
* Forums
*
* Forums
* Rennlist Help and Welcome Sections
*
* Rennlist Help and Welcome Sections
* New Member Welcome Area
* Rennlist Forum Glitches - post them here. Test posts are permitted.
* Rennlist Premium Member Help (Account and Membership Issues Only)
* Rennlist Classifieds
*
* Rennlist Classifieds
* The Rennlist Marketplace
* Vendor Announcements
* For Sale Ads - (Member to Member FS/WTB/Free)
* Porsche Technical Discussion Areas
*
* Porsche Technical Discussion Areas
* Taycan
* Macan EV
* 992
* 992 GT3 and GT2RS Forum
* 992 Turbo and Turbo S
* 991
* 991 GT3, GT3RS, GT2RS and 911R
* 991 Turbo
* 997 Forum
* 997 GT2/GT3 Forum
* 997 Turbo Forum
* 996 Forum
* 996 GT2/GT3 Forum
* 996 Turbo Forum
* 993 Forum
* 993 Turbo Forum
* 964 Forum
* 964 Turbo Forum
* 911 Forum
* 911 Turbo (930) Forum
* 718 Forum
* 981 Forum
* 987 Forum
* Boxster & Boxster S (986) Forum
* 928 Forum
* Macan
* Cayenne 9Y0 2019 -
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Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums > Porsche Technical Discussion Areas >
Cayenne 9Y0 2019 -
> 9Y0 Cayenne Turbo 0W-40 oil top off; Mobil 1 FS vs Mobil 1 ESP vs Mobil 1 ESP
X3?
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* Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums
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* 9Y0 CAYENNE TURBO 0W-40 OIL TOP OFF; MOBIL 1 FS VS MOBIL 1 ESP VS MOBIL 1 ESP
X3?
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9Y0 CAYENNE TURBO 0W-40 OIL TOP OFF; MOBIL 1 FS VS MOBIL 1 ESP VS MOBIL 1 ESP
X3?
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03-15-2021, 07:12 AM
#1
8378hjlafdljfads
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9Y0 Cayenne Turbo 0W-40 oil top off; Mobil 1 FS vs Mobil 1 ESP vs Mobil 1 ESP
X3?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi All,
I need to top off my north american/USA spec 2019 Cayenne Turbo with some oil.
It seems clear 0W-40 is called for.
However, I cannot determine if Mobil 1 FS or Mobil 1 ESP dexos2 is called for?
Or even Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40?
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...r-oil-products
Sun Coast Auto Parts lists Mobil 1 ESP dexos2 for my vehicle:
https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/0W40M1ESP.html
However, I cannot determine if FS or ESP is best. If I need ESP, will this from
Amazon work (appears to be ESP non-X3)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MXPNH7S/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_6?smid=A1KGK42RKCGLZP&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MXPNH7S/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_6?smid=A1KGK42RKCGLZP&psc=1
I can find FS locally very easily. ESP I need to order online.
From another post "Yes but the GM dexos 2 isnt Porsche C40 - perusal of previous
threads and posts seems to indicate that both A40 and C40 satisfy the dexos2
specs but that doesn’t mean that all dexos 2 rated oils satisfy
C40...Personally, if it doesn’t have C40 on the bottle, it ain’t going in the
engine!"
mobil1 ESP X3 0W-40 product data sheet:
https://www.mobil.com/en-de/passenge...-1-esp-x3-0w40
mobil1 ESP0W-40 product data sheet:
https://prod-east-pdfgenerator.avnds...rmula-0W40?p=1
This is very confusing.
Please advise. Thanks.
UPDATE: It seems clear from Schnave's post below (thanks) that Mobil 1 ESP X3
0W-40 is indeed required. I ordered from Sunset Porsche Parts.
However, I called the only two Porsche dealers in my US metropolitan area,
neither had this oil in stock. They wanted $33/liter to order it.
When asked if they do not stock the recommended oil for my vehicle, what they
would use if I brought it in to the service department, they stated A40 oil,
basically Mobil 1 0W-40 FS.
They stated that Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 is not available in bulk or large
container sizes thus is not used in the service bays. They stated if they used
Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 for an oil change the cost would be astronomical. (a
porsche oil change is bad enough as it is).
Thus, not even the dealers in my area at least are using the proper oil for
their own cars. Makes me wonder what the consequence of this is when warranty
claims happen.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by 8378hjlafdljfads; 03-15-2021 at 06:15 PM.
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03-15-2021, 01:44 PM
#2
Schnave
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Short answer: Check page 117 of your owner’s manual. It calls for oil meeting
the new C40 oil specification. Mobil1 ESP X3 0W-40 was developed in cooperation
with Porsche to meet this specification:
https://www.mobil.com/en-de/passenge...-1-esp-x3-0w40
It can be ordered in a 1L size bottle at any authorized Porsche dealer parts
counter with the part number 000 043 210 93. Sunset Porsche has it available
here: https://www.sunsetporscheparts.com/o...1l-00004321093
Long answer: In November 2018 Porsche released a statement indicating all new
Porsche models with gasoline engines will be successively outfitted with
particulate filters, with six- and eight-cylinder models receiving two filters,
one for each cylinder block.
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/inno...388-16349.html
Subsequent correspondence with PCNA shows this currently applies only to the
4.0L V-8. (EDIT: PCNA may have been referring to the 4.0L F-6 in the 718) See
post #46 here: https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-...-some-oil.html
This thread also describes the difficulty in finding this oil at local
retailers.
These particulate filters are susceptible to damage and clogging from the
previous A-40 spec oils. Therefore, Porsche consulted with Mobil 1 to develop an
oil that not only provides protection against LSPI, or low speed pre-ignition,
but protects the catalytic converters and particulate filters. That new “C”
specification is incorporated into Mobile 1 ESP X3 0W-40.
In January 2019, Porsche released Technical Information Bulletin 33/18 that
described the new allocation of engine oils.
https://myemail.constantcontact.com/...id=iD8Bl4jX1H8
Although Porsche places a sticker in the engine compartment recommending Mobile
1, other manufacturers meet the Porsche C40 / VW 511 00 spec. Tip o’ the hat to
Steve9 for his post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve9
The list of approved oils is currently short and can be downloaded from the
Volkswagen Erwin site; I think someone also posted on another rennlist
sub-forum. You can create an account for free to access the database and just
download the complete ZIP package as the VW511 one page PDF is not listed
directly on the website. I suspect CV19 may have slowed down the approval
process for new oils and it's also apparent that the posted list is out of date
as the Liquimoly is also approved as per following post. Below is a screenshot
and hopefully Technical Data Sheets for most of the approved oils. (Edit: had
some difficulty uploading the Champion and Wolf but added the Liquimoly). The
availability in Europe appears to be better than the US presently, with the
Mobil and Castrol readily available for ~£48 for 5 litres ($62)
VW Erwin registration to access oil approvals
Good luck!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Schnave; 03-16-2021 at 01:37 PM.
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03-15-2021, 02:08 PM
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Another outstanding contribution. Thanks Schnave.
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03-15-2021, 06:57 PM
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Since very few dealers carry this oil in even 1L format, and zero have this oil
in bulk format, it is safe to say that almost zero Cayenne V8 oil changes or top
offs performed by Porsche dealers in the US have been done with Mobil 1 0W-40
ESP X3 (porsche C40). Which means the vast majority of US based Cayenne V8s have
A40, non-C40 oil in them. I wonder what this means in the long term to our cars?
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03-15-2021, 09:54 PM
#5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8378hjlafdljfads
Since very few dealers carry this oil in even 1L format, and zero have this oil
in bulk format, it is safe to say that almost zero Cayenne V8 oil changes or top
offs performed by Porsche dealers in the US have been done with Mobil 1 0W-40
ESP X3 (porsche C40). Which means the vast majority of US based Cayenne V8s have
A40, non-C40 oil in them. I wonder what this means in the long term to our cars?
You may be on to something. I checked my service records and found my vehicle
was serviced with “bulk oil” 0W-40. One Rennlister posted that he had to explain
the C40 spec to his service manager, who knew nothing about it. I’ll query my
service manager prior to my next service. In the mean time, I’ll order a liter
of C40 oil to keep on hand for top-offs just in case my engine oil is, in fact,
C40 spec.
Long term, damage may be limited to degradation of the cats and the particulate
filters. The ECU should control the low speed pre ignition.
EDIT: The ECU will NOT control this. LSPI is the spontaneous ignition of fuel
before the spark plug fires and can cause severe engine damage. It is most
likely to occur at low engine RPM with high turbo boost such as when you floor
the accelerator at low RPM.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Schnave; 06-28-2021 at 10:00 AM.
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03-16-2021, 08:55 AM
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Do US cars have a particulate filter?
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03-16-2021, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ticket Target
Do US cars have a particulate filter?
Now that’s my kind of question - it challenges a fundamental assumption!
2018-2019 was a rough year for European auto manufacturers. New fuel economy and
emissions standards to reflect real-world driving called WLTP, were under
discussion since 2008 and were to be finalized in 2018 and implemented in 2023.
Then Dieselgate happened. Regulators accelerated WLTP implementation and gave
manufacturers just 13 months to develop, test, and certify all vehicles sold
after September 2018. That’s five years earlier than Porsche expected.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/f...ssions-testing
In November 2018, Porsche hastily released a statement that ALL Porsches will be
outfitted with particulate filters as of the previous month. Clearly, they were
playing catch up and that statement was inaccurate. Per my previous post, PCNA
stated in December 2020 that “. . . the fact that we do not have functioning
Gasoline Particulate Filters in the US at this time does not change the
specification of the oil. The C40 oil is specifically tested and validated for
that 4.0l motor and remains the only one we recommend right now.” (my emphasis)
On re-reading this statement, two things stuck out: He may be referring to the 6
cylinder 4.0L engine in the 718. He also addressed what 718 owners have found
with their particulate filters. They are indeed installed but do not seem to be
monitored, i.e. non-functioning. Here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-...-euro-gpf.html and here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-...lia-mod-2.html EDIT: Further research
shows that particulate filter active regeneration cycles are triggered when
excessive back pressure is detected in the exhaust. The ECU then modifies the
air-fuel ratio to cause much higher exhaust temperatures (600 C) to burn off the
accumulated soot in the filter. I propose that the back pressure sensors may not
be installed directly on the particulate filters. This would lead the 718
owners, not seeing sensors on the filters, to falsely conclude the filters are
not monitored. Just my working theory for now . . .
So <head spinning now> do our Cayennes have particulate filters and if so, are
they functional? Do we really need C40 spec oil? Which engines have filters and
are there any differences between model years 2019 - 2021? I have no stinking
idea! Next step: Email my service manager to get his input to this mystery. I’ll
publish the response with his permission.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Schnave; 03-16-2021 at 03:19 PM.
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03-19-2021, 02:40 PM
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Just returned from Porsche Stevens Creek. The Service Advisor confirmed that US
cars have a particulate filter, although they have not had any issues with them.
Because they are a Penske dealer, they use Pennzoil for their oil changes. When
I went to the parts dept. they sold me
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...formula-0w-40/ , and indicated they just
received it.
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03-19-2021, 07:13 PM
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Thanks for the update, Ticket Target. My head just stopped spinning. I’m still
waiting for a response from my query to my Porsche service manager; I think I
like yours better.
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04-10-2021, 10:39 AM
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My 2020 Turbo is now one year old, so I took it to my dealer yesterday for the
free service. I showed the service advisor a few selective posts from above --
regarding the C40 spec, and asked him what type of oil they use. His response
was 0-40 Mobil 1 European. He went to check with the service manager, and it
turns out that for the Turbo, they do use the correct oil -- Mobil 1 ESP. They
do have it in bulk, in addition to quart sized, in case customers want to
purchase a quart for top off. The service invoice does list the correct ESP oil,
so I assume that's what was used. The service advisor explained that when a
vehicle enters the shop the VIN is entered into their system, that specifies the
parts needed for that particular model.
A few more points that I discussed with the SM at pickup:
1. An oil extractor cannot be used on the Turbo, as an extractor tube cannot be
lowered to the sump bottom, due to other stuff in the way -- believe he said
some Turbo stuff.
2. Next annual service is $1,200 and includes oil / filter change, brake flush,
air filter for cabin and cleaning the path to the filter.
I've serviced all my vehicles over the past many years (many Porsches), but this
one looks difficult -- particularly getting to the oil filter: I'm taking it to
the dealer for service. At least I'll get a "Free" Car Wash.
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04-10-2021, 12:28 PM
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Thanks philg3. That’s some good information.
My 2019 Cayenne Turbo 2 year / 20K service cost $800 plus tax at a Porsche
dealer in Oklahoma City. I get that things are more expensive in California, but
is an extra 50% justified?. You may wish to show this invoice to your dealer and
have him explain why they charge an extra 50% for the exact same service. Or
maybe my dealership used the cheap A40 oil. 😩
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Schnave; 04-10-2021 at 03:23 PM.
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04-11-2021, 09:37 PM
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Ignore this post as the information has been updated -- refer to post 18 on this
thread. Use the Mobil 1 ESP X3 for Turbo 4.0 engines.
I just came across this that indicates the Mobil 1 ESP and the ESP X3 version
are the same:
†† Mobil ESP X3 is labeled ESP in the North America. It is meant for vehicles
equipped with diesel GDI (Gasoline Direct Injection) to help with Gasoline
Particulates Filtering, but North American Cayennes are not equipped with diesel
– as of yet. Nevertheless, it will not harm non-diesel engines. It is most
likely an attempt by VW-Audi-Porsche to standardize on an engine oil for newer
vehicles.
Got this from the following Turbo oil change procedure:
https://www.celiamania.com/?p=1688
This may be the reason why it's so difficult to find the X3 version in the US.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by philg3; 04-12-2021 at 05:08 PM. Reason: Updated info on the Turbo
oil change procedure
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04-11-2021, 11:31 PM
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The original question was for the 2019 model. The 2019s did not have any GPF,
and the manual specifies A40 oil, not C40. For North American cars, C40 started
with 2021 model year AFAIK. So just use 0W40 FS.
Strangely, Mobil 1 product catalogue for North America does not list any C40
oils - maybe that's why it's so hard to get. I've seen Liqui Molly and Motul C40
oils available, though.
Also, not sure the info about ESP X3 being called ESP in North America is
correct - the spec sheets of European ESP X3 and North American ESP are very
different, so it does not look like the same oil
(https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...formula-0w-40/ and
https://www.mobil.com/en-de/passenge...-1-esp-x3-0w40 - note how the latter one
has slightly better high-temp and high-sheer viscosity ratings). It could be
that Mobil still has an older spec sheet on the North American site, though.
Edit: I stand corrected - looks like the manual for some cars specifies C40 oil
before 2021. This is strange because there were no GPFs (even the inert dummy
ones) on 2019 models in North America.
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Last edited by MaxLTV; 04-12-2021 at 02:56 PM.
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04-12-2021, 12:10 AM
#14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxLTV
Strangely, Mobil 1 product catalogue for North America does not list any C40
oils - maybe that's why it's so hard to get. I've seen Liqui Molly and Motul C40
oils available, though.
[size=33px]
[/size]
Agreed. You got me thinking - bear with my logic for a moment. Porsche consulted
with Mobile when developing the new C spec oil. Porsche puts stickers in our
engine compartments recommending Mobile 1. Page 117 of the owner’s manuals for
2019 Cayenne Turbos (see post #2, above) specifies C40 spec oil. Porsche ships
these vehicles to North America. So I went to the North American Mobile Oil site
to see which oil they recommend. (FS, ESP, or ESP X3)
So check this out. The site says that they do not have any oil suitable for a
2019 Cayenne Turbo.
Huh? Why does Porsche recommend an oil that is not available?
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...ght-motor-oil/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Schnave; 04-12-2021 at 12:52 AM.
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04-12-2021, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philg3
I
†† Mobil ESP X3 is labeled ESP in the North America. It is meant for vehicles
equipped with diesel GDI (Gasoline Direct Injection) to help with Gasoline
Particulates Filtering,.
Diesel Gasoline Direct Injection appears to make no sense.
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04-12-2021, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxLTV
The original question was for the 2019 model. The 2019s did not have any GPF,
and the manual specifies A40 oil, not C40. Same for 2020 models. For North
American cars, C40 started with 2021 model year AFAIK. So just use 0W40 FS.
Just checked the manual for my 2020 Turbo, on page 109 it specifies C40 (not
A40) for the 4.0L engine. Furthermore, the manual states "For information on the
correct engine oil, contact an authorized Porsche dealer. If engine oil need to
be added, use this engine oil." Checked under the hood, and the sticker says use
Mobil 1 with no other details. A few days back, I checked the Mobil 1 web site,
for specs, and it wasn't much help -- about the same amount of help using their
oil selector, got the same results as others, that there is no Mobil 1 oil that
meets the requirements of my 2020 Turbo. Doubt that's true.
Dealer used Mobil 1 ESP X3 according to the service advisor though invoice shows
Mobil 1 ESP for the oil change.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by philg3; 04-13-2021 at 04:01 PM.
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04-12-2021, 12:04 PM
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I do want to add to this discussion that the C40 oil also provides protection
from low speed pre-ignition which is a must on any direct injected engine that
has forced induction.
The A40 oil for sure does not provide protection from LSPI. The big difference
is between the oils is the level of detergency and the type of detergents used.
The #1 culprit for LSPI is high levels of Ca detergents as well as the presence
of any Na detergents. The A40 oil has way too much Ca detergents.
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04-12-2021, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxLTV
Also, not sure the info about ESP X3 being called ESP in North America is
correct - the spec sheets of European ESP X3 and North American ESP are very
different, so it does not look like the same oil
(https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...formula-0w-40/ and
https://www.mobil.com/en-de/passenge...-1-esp-x3-0w40 - note how the latter one
has slightly better high-temp and high-sheer viscosity ratings). It could be
that Mobil still has an older spec sheet on the North American site, though.
Thank you MaxLTV for the links. The ESP vs ESP X3 blurb was off of my website.
It turns out the marketing info I was given was inaccurate. I wrote that in
September 2020 and seems like Mobil released the current spec sheet October
2020. I have added a correction to the article.
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04-12-2021, 01:37 PM
#19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icemang
Diesel Gasoline Direct Injection appears to make no sense.
True. I think it was meant to have a slash. Diesel/Gasoline Direct Injection.
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04-12-2021, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philg3
Just checked the manual for my 2020 Turbo, on page 109 it specifies C40 (not
A40) for the 4.0L engine. Furthermore, the manual states "For information on the
correct engine oil, contact an authorized Porsche dealer. If engine oil need to
be added, use this engine oil." Checked under the hood, and the sticker says use
Mobil 1 with no other details. A few days back, I checked the Mobil 1 web site,
for specs, and it wasn't much help -- about the same amount of help using their
oil selector, got the same results as others, that there is no Mobil 1 oil that
meets the requirements of my 2020 Turbo. Doubt that's true.
Dealer used Mobil 1 ESP according to the invoice for the oil change.
I corrected my post - even despite no GPFs, C40 is recommended prior to 2021.
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04-13-2021, 03:30 PM
#21
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So now its clear that ESP (aka SAE-ESP aka ESP X2) is not the same as ESP X3.
But is X2 with its DEXOS2 approval closer to X3 and better to use on new
vehicles than the black label FS since it has some remediation for LSPI?
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04-13-2021, 03:34 PM
#22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celiawessen
So now its clear that ESP (aka SAE-ESP aka ESP X2) is not the same as ESP X3.
But is X2 with its DEXOS2 approval closer to X3 and better to use on new
vehicles than the black label FS since it has some remediation for LSPI?
If the ESP/X2 has DEXOS2 approval, it is for sure formulated to prevent LSPI and
would indeed be better in a pinch than the A40 oil as long as the correct
viscosity is used.
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05-06-2021, 12:19 PM
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A follow up from my 1st service. I told my SA that I didn't want Pennzoil, that
I wasn't aware of a formulation that met spec. She indicated that was okay, that
they would use Mobil 1. When I picked up the car yesterday, she indicated that I
was right, there isn't a Pennzoil that is approved.
So make sure you're getting the proper oil during service.
Thanks to all for the education.
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05-29-2021, 10:36 PM
#24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schnave
Short answer: Check page 117 of your owners manual. It calls for oil meeting
the new C40 oil specification. Mobil1 ESP X3 0W-40 was developed in cooperation
with Porsche to meet this specification:
https://www.mobil.com/en-de/passenge...-1-esp-x3-0w40
It can be ordered in a 1L size bottle at any authorized Porsche dealer parts
counter with the part number 000 043 210 93. Sunset Porsche has it available
here: https://www.sunsetporscheparts.com/o...1l-00004321093
Long answer: In November 2018 Porsche released a statement indicating all new
Porsche models with gasoline engines will be successively outfitted with
particulate filters, with six- and eight-cylinder models receiving two filters,
one for each cylinder block.
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/inno...388-16349.html
Subsequent correspondence with PCNA shows this currently applies only to the
4.0L V-8. (EDIT: PCNA may have been referring to the 4.0L F-6 in the 718) See
post #46 here: https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-...-some-oil.html
This thread also describes the difficulty in finding this oil at local
retailers.
These particulate filters are susceptible to damage and clogging from the
previous A-40 spec oils. Therefore, Porsche consulted with Mobil 1 to develop an
oil that not only provides protection against LSPI, or low speed pre-ignition,
but protects the catalytic converters and particulate filters. That new C
specification is incorporated into Mobile 1 ESP X3 0W-40.
In January 2019, Porsche released Technical Information Bulletin 33/18 that
described the new allocation of engine oils.
https://myemail.constantcontact.com/...id=iD8Bl4jX1H8
Although Porsche places a sticker in the engine compartment recommending Mobile
1, other manufacturers meet the Porsche C40 / VW 511 00 spec. Tip o the hat to
Steve9 for his post:
Good luck!
To confirm for anyone that may be asking, on the 9Y0 GTS, the manual calls for
the same C40 oil.
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06-08-2021, 05:12 PM
#25
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Just had the oil changed on wife’s Turbo. Although the service guy didn’t know
what C40 oil was, I had him check with the manager to verify they indeed had
bulk C40 oil prior to making the appointment. While waiting, I went to the parts
department to grab a couple spare liters for later top-offs. Part # 000 043 210
93.
They charged me $33.09 each. Ouch! Learn this from my pain: bypass the dealer
and purchase online. Suncoast has the same item priced at $22.43.
https://www.sunsetporscheparts.com/o...1l-00004321093
I learned a few things while discussing this oil with the parts guys. It is in
short supply. They only had seven liters on hand, now just five. They have just
found a new source for this oil and expect the price to come down.
It is difficult to see the “X3” part of the name on the label; I thought they
were trying to sell me regular ESP. He pointed out the tiny X3 on the label
(circled, below). He also said to look for the green cap to differentiate the
X3. Regular ESP has a gray cap. Also, the back label (in German) will specify
the Porsche C40 spec.
The good news is is that the 11 liters of bulk oil used for the oil change costs
just $9.70 per liter. The bad news is the total cost for an oil change was
$588.79. Still worth it!
EDIT: See Post #40 from dasams for picture of Mobil’s new retail bottle with
different label and GRAY cap. Price decreased to about $10. 👍🏼
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Schnave; 07-08-2021 at 05:43 PM.
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06-08-2021, 05:18 PM
#26
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Bonus picture taken during the oil change. Check out those twin turbos nestled
between the cylinder banks. Pity they are obscured by the engine cover!
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06-27-2021, 08:24 AM
#27
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Looks like they used 0w40 on our '19 2.9S for the last oil change. Anyone aware
of the difference between C30 and C40 other than viscosity grade?
I remember reading somewhere that C30 spec is compatible with materials on
cylinder liners due to lower Ca content...(along with addressing newest
particulate filters)
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06-27-2021, 12:34 PM
#28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s85b50
Looks like they used 0w40 on our '19 2.9S for the last oil change. Anyone aware
of the difference between C30 and C40 other than viscosity grade?
I remember reading somewhere that C30 spec is compatible with materials on
cylinder liners due to lower Ca content...(along with addressing newest
particulate filters)
Im wondering what spec that 0W40 was. Likely it was A40 since that is the go-to
bulk oil used for many Porsches. This oil is incompatible with your engine in
both viscosity AND specification. You may wish to have a talk with your mechanic
and have your oil replaced with C30 free of charge. Same thinking applies if
they used C40 spec oil. The Mobile website states that:
Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 can only be used in the vehicles for which it is approved.
It is not backward compatible with vehicle engines requiring an A40, C30 or C20.
https://www.mobil.com/en-se/passenge...-1-esp-x3-0w40
The C30 specification has been around for a while and was introduced primarily
for the 2013-2018 3.0L Cayenne Diesel engine. The oil played well with the
diesel particulate filters used to meet emissions standards. (Or not ). Since
2018, Porsche also recommends C30 for the 2.9L V6 presumably because it plays
well with the gasoline particulate filters used with this engine.
The C20 and C40 spec is newer and was developed for use in 2019 and newer
Porsche engines.
More here:
https://www.blauparts.com/blog/porsc...oil-types.html
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06-27-2021, 01:45 PM
#29
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The C40 spec is low ash and was developed for engines that have gasoline
particulate filters. Please see the attached press release from Porsche.
Thanks, Dave
Attached Images
Press releases: Porsche and Mobil 1? jointly launch new motor oil - Newsroom &
Press - About Por.pdf (732.9 KB, 71 views)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by dasams; 06-27-2021 at 01:47 PM.
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06-27-2021, 11:56 PM
#30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s85b50
Looks like they used 0w40 on our '19 2.9S for the last oil change. Anyone aware
of the difference between C30 and C40 other than viscosity grade?
I remember reading somewhere that C30 spec is compatible with materials on
cylinder liners due to lower Ca content...(along with addressing newest
particulate filters)
Comparing the A40 spec oils to the C20, C30, and C40 oils the biggest change is
the detergency. They had to lower the calcium detergents significantly to
provide protection against LSPI (low speed pre-ignition) common to direct
injected engines with forced induction. The difference is the the CXX oils have
to meet ACEA C2/C3 specifications for sulfated ash with not to exceed an average
0.72 (mass %) which in layman's terms means they had to reduce the ZDDP levels.
On the plus side, it would appear that they have increased the HTHS viscosity of
the C40 Mobil 1 product versus Mobil's A40 approved 0w40 oil.
The SUMEbore coated cylinders don't really need anything special when it comes
to oil formulation. As previously mentioned, the particulate filters are
sensitive to the sulfated ash. Same reason why diesel fuels are all ultra low
sulfur to protect their emission control systems.
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06-28-2021, 12:02 AM
#31
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pfft, what do you know?
kidding, just kidding
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06-28-2021, 09:51 PM
#32
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Has anybody with a Cayenne Turbo requiring C40 oil had any recent experiences
and can you confirm that C40 oil, part 000 043 210 93, Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 was
indeed used vs. other bulk oil?
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06-28-2021, 10:25 PM
#33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8378hjlafdljfads
Has anybody with a Cayenne Turbo requiring C40 oil had any recent experiences
and can you confirm that C40 oil, part 000 043 210 93, Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 was
indeed used vs. other bulk oil?
I just had mine done on June 8th. I confirmed they had bulk C40 prior to making
the appointment. In fact, I made my way to the maintenance bay and the mechanic
showed me the laboratory oil analysis of the bulk oil. 👍🏼 The $9.70 bulk price
is WAY better than the $33 / liter I paid for the individual bottles. 😃
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07-04-2021, 01:31 PM
#34
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I need to add 2 quarts of oil to my C GTS but can't source Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40 X3
(other than the local dealer). Has anyone tried Motul 8100 X-Clean Gen2 5W40?
It's a C40 oil that's $50 for 5 liters and available on Amazon. See
Amazon
Amazon
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07-04-2021, 02:51 PM
#35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dasams
I need to add 2 quarts of oil to my C GTS but can't source Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40 X3
(other than the local dealer). Has anyone tried Motul 8100 X-Clean Gen2 5W40?
It's a C40 oil that's $50 for 5 liters and available on Amazon. See
https://www.amazon.com/Motul-8100-X-...omotive&sr=1-6
Great find! You should be good to go. No need to worry when adding 5W40 to 0W40;
you will have very slightly less cold flow during startup. Only an issue in
extreme cold weather.
Here's a post from a Motul representative describing the release of the new oil
last May 2020. Lots of good info in this thread regarding SAPS content effects
on particulate filters. He also addresses how they modify oil formulations to
prevent Low Speed Pre-Ignition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motul
I wanted to post an update to say that our "gen2" versions of both 8100 X-cess
5W40 and 8100 X-clean 5W40 have started to ship to distributors and should
arrive at most online retailers and dealers this summer.
Our primary reason for reformulating was due to new standards from BMW to meet
their improved LL-01 and LL-04 standards on 2019+ vehicles, but it also gave us
a chance to achieve the new Porsche C40 approval on our X-clean 5W40 gen2
product.
Full details on the launch can be found here: INTRODUCING 8100 X-CESS 5W40 GEN 2
AND X-CLEAN 5W40 GEN2
Here are the basics:
8100 X-cess 5W40 gen2 - will eventually phase out current product as it retains
the same approvals (Porsche A40, VW 502 00 / 505 00, MB 229.5/226/5) but is an
improved formula to retain the adjusted BMW LL-01 standard.
8100 X-clean 5W40 gen2 - new product is reformulated and has approvals for
Porsche C40**, VW 511 00**, GM dexos2, MB, 229.52/226.5, and adjusted BMW LL-04
standard. Will exist alongside the "first gen" or current product as that
formula offers Porsche A40 and VW 502 00 / 505 00 / 505 01. **new Porsche C40
and VW 511 00 standards are not backwards compatible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Schnave; 07-04-2021 at 03:38 PM.
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07-06-2021, 09:42 PM
#36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dasams
I need to add 2 quarts of oil to my C GTS but can't source Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40 X3
(other than the local dealer). Has anyone tried Motul 8100 X-Clean Gen2 5W40?
It's a C40 oil that's $50 for 5 liters and available on Amazon. See
https://www.amazon.com/Motul-8100-X-...omotive&sr=1-6
Just a warning, I ordered this and what showed up was the old gen1 X-Clean which
is just A40 spec. Sending it right back.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Mech33; 07-07-2021 at 01:09 AM.
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07-06-2021, 11:12 PM
#37
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^^ Dang. Sorry to hear. I have not yet ordered but was hoping this could be a
great solution. Plus it was only 115F here today so I really don’t need 0W-40 😲
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07-07-2021, 09:24 PM
#38
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Well I stopped by my local dealer today, and to my surprise they had the proper
Mobil1 X3 oil available by the liter in retail packaging for under $10 a piece.
I picked up 5 to have on hand for top off and went merrily on my way.
The part number on the receipt was 0-W40-ESP with description 0W40 ESP X3
and I confirmed on the bottle that it says X3 and C40 rating.
Interestingly, the bottles have a gray cap and look slightly different from
others in this thread.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Mech33; 07-07-2021 at 09:26 PM.
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07-07-2021, 09:46 PM
#39
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That’s fantastic news, Mech33. My dealer told me they had recently found a new
source for C40 oil and that the price would soon drop; never expected it to be
below ten bucks, though! This, of course, after I paid over $70 for two liters
imported from Germany. 😩
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07-08-2021, 03:44 PM
#40
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I called my local dealer Porsche Palm Springs and they also received a small
amount of X3 oil. The price is $10.25 per qt and they only have four available.
Edit: I just got back from the dealer and, as noted in a post above, the label
has changed in that the cap is now grey. Note that I've circled the X3
nomenclature and the C40 approval is on the back.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by dasams; 07-08-2021 at 05:19 PM.
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11-09-2021, 11:06 AM
#41
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Just got a call from dealer. My annual service scheduled for tomorrow is
cancelled because they have no C40 oil. They have no idea when it will come in.
Five others are also waiting on C40 oil.
So no chips to make them and no oil / parts to service them. How long until we
go full Mad Max? 😫 I’m gonna go buy some more toilet paper.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Schnave; 11-09-2021 at 11:29 AM.
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11-09-2021, 12:38 PM
#42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schnave
Just got a call from dealer. My annual service scheduled for tomorrow is
cancelled because they have no C40 oil. They have no idea when it will come in.
Five others are also waiting on C40 oil.
So no chips to make them and no oil / parts to service them. How long until we
go full Mad Max? 😫 Im gonna go buy some more toilet paper.
$20.00 CDN + taxes ($16.00USD) at my dealer and they had stock last time I
checked.
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11-09-2021, 10:37 PM
#43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schnave
Just got a call from dealer. My annual service scheduled for tomorrow is
cancelled because they have no C40 oil. They have no idea when it will come in.
Five others are also waiting on C40 oil.
So no chips to make them and no oil / parts to service them. How long until we
go full Mad Max? 😫 Im gonna go buy some more toilet paper.
Not sure if in stock but here is a link.
https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/0w40m1espx3.html
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11-10-2021, 12:30 PM
#44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radctt1
Not sure if in stock but here is a link.
https://www.suncoastparts.com/product/0w40m1espx3.html
Thanks for the advice, @kayjh. Called dealer and they were sold out but said I
could bring my own oil if I could find it. Thanks to you, @radctt1, I called
Suncoast and they said they have 180 bottles in stock @ 10.95 each. I ordered 12
bottles and they’re on the way.
Thanks to both of you for the help!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Schnave; 11-10-2021 at 12:33 PM.
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10-27-2022, 11:11 AM
#45
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Suncoast currently out of stock for C40 X3. Actually found it at local Auto zone
to my surprise.
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